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Old 28. Jun 2009, 03:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debtboy View Post
It's sad when the average computer user is responsible for understanding
the high tech, ever changing world of computer security and malware protection.

Would you blame the innocent users (or user input) in this case
http://boards.cexx.org/index.php?topic=17209.45

This may not be the norm, but it's one of many examples of
innocent users, by no fault of their own, becoming compromised.


I believe that Microsoft is aware of vulnerabilities due to system design
so they will be releasing their own anti-malware product soon.
http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazin...ware-software/


Interesting article, which seems similar to this thread:
http://www.bsdnexus.com/drupal/node/36

I'm starting to like this "Debating Chamber"
Your examples are all flawed. When a criminal breaks into your car, is it the fault of the car?

When you know that "surfing the net", ( often aimlessly clicking on various things to waste time ) can cause problems, ( Like driving with one hand while using a mobile telephone), then you need to take precautions, and be more careful, not blame the system because it failed to prevent your stupidity and carelessness.

Also, although in another post you have a rant about "control" by various "entities", that is actually what you are asking for. The more one tries to save people from the consequences of carelessness and stupidity, the more control results.

Finally , I don't really appreciate being called a liar, and I would be most grateful if you would refrain from such assertions.

You are allowing your obvious enthusiasm for one thing, and your obvious lack of enthusiasm for something else, to colour practically everything you write here, this also results in misinformation, misunderstandings, and is pointless and obnoxious to boot.

Last edited by Mike Connor; 28. Jun 2009 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 03:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Connor View Post
When a criminal breaks into your car, is it the fault of the car?
True, I cannot disagree but I think what debtboy suggest is to get a better car, one that asks for the key before allowing you to do anything important.

User's mistake + No asking for permission = Lousy security

Whereas

User reads and acts carefully + Asking for permission = Better security
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 03:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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There are cars now available that wont start before you breathe into an alcohol tester. This stops most drunks from driving them, but there are also people who circumvent this.

With all due respect, one also has to maintain touch with reality. Of all the systems available, Windows is the most popular and ranting and railing about it is absolutely pointless, most especially on a site like this which is designed to help people.

To maintain the analogy, and pursue it further, if you leave your car door open with the engine running while you pop into a shop to buy something, whose fault is it when the car is stolen, or the radio ripped out, or your briefcase with important papers stolen from the back seat, your wallet taken from the glove compartment?

It makes no difference at all what car you drive, if you do not take elementary precautions then you are in danger of these things happening. This does not even take into account the criminals who will smash a window or break a lock to get into your car and steal or damage something.

There is no completely safe operating system, not least because they all depend on user input. The quality of user input is the first major hurdle. The second major hurdle is external attacks, also heavily influenced by user behaviour.

The inherent "security" of any particular system comes a long long way behind various other hurdles. Also, people constantly mistake "security" for "reliability", which is not the same thing at all, although of course these things are interdependent.

Illogical ranting and using flawed examples to bolster a particular point of view, which is also at variance with reality, is a complete waste of time, and wont help anybody at all.

The perceived "quality" of any particular system is dependent on the person using it, and the tasks he is attempting to accomplish with it. The most popular system is arguably automatically the "worst" system in many respects, because it has to be "everything" for "everybody", and also still be suitable for use by people who know nothing about it, and don't want to know either.

Last edited by Mike Connor; 28. Jun 2009 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 05:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I agree 100% with this last post from Mike.

I remember once stopping to help at the scene of an accident after a boy had been knocked off his bicycle by a driver using his mobile. This guy still had the phone in his hand and all he could say was "it wasn't my fault". This is the attitude I see all the time from the owners of infected computers. I used to have a sign up in our place which said (in Portuguese) "are you in denial?. My wife said it was offensive so I took it down!
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 06:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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May have been a better debate, if Mike had
supplied solid examples like I did,
instead of blaming the user and ranting about
technicians, professional administrators, and
automobile burglaries.

If you believe my examples are flawed, explain why
or better yet, supply some of your own.

I feel no need to address the other rants as
they are mostly off topic opinions.

Looks like a debate that went bad...
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 06:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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There basically is no "debate". You obviously want to slag Windows, and praise Linux. That's fine with me. I can't see it serving any useful purpose, but it doesn't really affect me at all. If you supply misinformation, as you have now done on several occasions, I may offer corrections, or I may just ignore it.

It would seem you equate reasoned and logical replies with "ranting" being , "worked up", "defensive", "upset", "falsehoods", etc. etc.

I neither need nor want to supply any "examples" of anything at all, and have no intention of doing so.

You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to provoke, denigrate, insult, or libel others on a public bulletin board like this one. I am sure somebody else will come along and point that out to you if you continue in this vein.

Have a nice day...........
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 07:06 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Connor View Post
You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to provoke, denigrate, insult, or libel others on a public bulletin board like this one.
Please go back and read the entire thread, then
look in the mirror and read your sentence.

You have a nice day as well........
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 07:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Strictly speaking this isn't a "public Bulletin Board", but believe me, by our usual standards, this is one of the most-intelligent, reasoned, & thought-provoking debates we've ever seen here.
If you feel you've been insulted, refer the matter to a Moderator, although most of our users are too grown-up to take offence. Those who use trigger words like "libel" are likely to find the ever vigilant Mods issuing infractions which may lead to bans & account closure.
Almost all users deeply resent non-Editors (ie. mere Members) attempting to dictate the posting behavior of others.
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 07:19 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Please guys, lets not turn this into an argument. We are here to discuss things, and learn in the process, and also help others. So have a discussion, but no arguments.

Windows or Linux... Firefox or Opera... KM Player or VLC... these are just non-ending debates, where people can just go on and on... and it won't ever end, if people just keep on saying the program they like is the best. When there are choices available, at the end of the day, its personal choices that matter. So please, have a nice discussion, so that it helps others.

debtboy, debate just for the sake of having a debate, leads nowhere.

Have a nice discussion guys, no arguments... and please don't provoke anyone into an argument, or debate. Lets share on the knowledge we have, and help others.

Thanks
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Old 28. Jun 2009, 07:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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OK, so close the account. It's really not a big deal. As I told you once before I don't need pointless ( and in this case rather silly) hassle. I only posted here again because I was specifically requested to do so.

Have a nice day.....
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