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Old 08. Mar 2011, 01:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kendall View Post
OUCH!
I understand from the article that Jeff is fully aware of the review and encouraged it's posting.
He annoyed me enough to post a full rebuttal here.

tl/dr: You don't install a "minimalistic" distro and then write a review complaining about a lack of pre-installed software. The fact that everything and the kitchen sink isn't pre-install are not "bugs".

Cheers,
~Jeff
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Old 08. Mar 2011, 03:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I was very surprised when I read his review. I have often considered building my own distro from scratch because of all the programs that are pre-installed that I never use. I know a lot of people who do this. He obviously is completely oblivious (whether willfully or otherwise I don't know) about what minimalistic is.

And apparently it is your fault Jeff that Firefox 4 lacks all the bling bling he and "today's users" demand in a browser? I suppose Firefox's lack of bling bling is why it is so unpopular today? Does he use the same internet the rest of us do? Because last time I checked Firefox was the top browser.

One of the more off the wall things he said was..
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Do you expect the average user to hunt for hundreds of missing programs and be able to tell the difference between Shutter, Shotwell, Openshot, and F-Spot?
I suppose everytime I switch to a new disto, I am expected to just move all my images over from the photo manager I am used to and use the one that the distro demis have willed for my life? I suppose just about everyone who had been using f-spot just started happily using shotwell because Ubuntu willed it so?

Maybe he would have had a point there if he was talking about brand new comers to linux. But he said "average user." And average users will automatically uninstall the pre-installed choices made for them, and install their own programs of choice. It is not pointless to have a distro without the choices made for you, THAT IS THE POINT. What would be pointless is if it was pretty much exactly like most of the other custom distos that everybody and their dog are putting out these days which change almost nothing, and offer little over something else that is already available.

I think your average linux user that is looking for a light weight minimalistic distro, would not give his review of it a second thought. It is not compelling in the least.

P.S. By the way my audio worked with out a problem. So did pretty much everything else. I found nothing that is "annoying."
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Old 08. Mar 2011, 06:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I should inform that Dedoimedo is shortly to join the Gizmo's team with his own contribution (if he hasn't been frightened off now ) so then you can all slag it out in the closed forums

Until then, and irrespective of opinions about the content could I please ask (Jeff) to respect our forum rules which by all means allow you to attack the post, but not the poster
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Old 08. Mar 2011, 07:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MidnightCowboy View Post
could I please ask (Jeff) to respect our forum rules
Yea, yea - sorry bout that was a little bit peeved when I wrote that - will edit my forum post accordingly.

EDIT: Guess I can't edit my own post any more >.<

~Jeff
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Old 08. Mar 2011, 07:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jeff91 View Post
Yea, yea - sorry bout that was a little bit peeved when I wrote that - will edit my forum post accordingly.

EDIT: Guess I can't edit my own post any more >.<

~Jeff
I can edit it for you if you want to PM me with details of the edit
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Old 08. Mar 2011, 11:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MidnightCowboy View Post
Incidentally, the biggest move amongst those I know here who have changed distros is to Pardus, especially at the university.
A little off topic
I've been meaning to ask you how Pardus was working for you. I figured you had some time to get a feel for it. My main concern with Pardus was it using its own software packages. Are you limited to their packages or can you use .deb packages as well? I guess otherwise you could compile your own.

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Old 09. Mar 2011, 07:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
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My Pardus experience was nothing short of excellent. Certainly the most stable distro I've ever used although for many, package availability will be a big problem unless you want to compile from source. According to their forum though they are working to make more available. They still had everything I wanted.

Unfortunately I need to move back to Windows 7 on my main machine for site work and I don't fancy dual booting it again. My spare machine should have died a long time ago and it's only happy running Mint so I'm leaving that installation well alone.

If it wasn't for the Windows need I would still be with Pardus. Everyone who saw the installation was impressed with it's looks and speed.
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Old 09. Mar 2011, 11:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hello all,

My first post here after lurking for a couple of years.

I have not yet fully decided how to take in the collective web reaction to my review. There's quite a bit of talk on reddit, some here, some on Jeff's own site.

There are several aspects to consider ...

Negative reactions to one's work:

If this were a major thing, one should never write or bother writing about bad things; only good things that make everyone happy, but what's the point of that? In general, the Linux community reaction to negative feedback is known as GNUkakke.

Personal attacks:

I guess they show the real character of whoever is involved.

Technical:

Reviewing distributions take time and effort. And potentially, it allows smaller development teams to advertise their products on more popular sites, for free. In theory, my review could have been positive, and then it's five hours of work by Dedoimedo + associated bandwidth, given for free. Easily 300-400 dollars of effort on my end. For free.

In this regard, one should never go public with a product if they are not willing to accept the fact that someone MIGHT not like their stuff. Furthermore, I could have chosen to review Bodhi without any feedback from the developer, and then, there would not be even the mention of his courage to go forth with a bad review.

Personal, some more:

I did write in Jeff's blog that my review is nothing personal and does not invalidate his effort or ideas. I also wrote that I would link to his article, most likely today. That one comment was not published. Either it did not pass the spam filters or it was removed.

I still don't see why my review should be viewed as an affront. I don't know Jeff, never met him, and I have no reason to dislike what he does or represents. However, his binary code did not satisfy me as a reviewer, and I have every right to write about that, just as everyone else can write their own opinions any which way they want.

There's another side to this review, if anyone is interesting in seeing. That is the user experience which turned out to be bad. Whether I'm wrong or not is irrelevant. The fact is that I did not find the distro to be suitable for daily use. You can build on that and work on a better solution, you can ignore me, you do anything you find suitable. This is indeed the meaning of freedom.

The difference between your friends and enemies is that your friends will tell you the truth in your face. And I'm your friend, no matter how hard it is for you to believe that. Just like a loving parent spanking their child with a belt, it's a sign of love. Or maybe abuse. No, not abuse.

Lastly ...

I am not frightened or discouraged by anyone not liking my work. Especially considering what I view to be the "average" or "standard" compared to what a typical Linux user, if such a thing exists, might think.

Fire away ....

Cheers,
Dedoimedo
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Old 09. Mar 2011, 01:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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. This is indeed the meaning of freedom.
Welcome to TSA!

I liked your site, would love too see if you maintain that "freedom"/ your style of writing here too...
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Old 09. Mar 2011, 03:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dedoimedo View Post

Fire away ....

Cheers,
Dedoimedo
Welcome. We are glad to have you as part of the team, and as such we definitely won't shoot to kill. I have read your blog many times in the past, and would say as far as my memory serves, the Bodhi article is the first time I have disagreed with anything you wrote.

I have been using Bodhi for a while now on my netbook, and it has been one of my better experiences. It definitely fills a nice niche there. The fact that it is extremely minimalistic, and light weight in regards to system resources is why I like it. When I used to buy a new pre-built Windows system, I used to dislike all the "bloat" it came with. My first task was always to clean it all out. I feel much the same way about many of the current Linux distros packaged software choices. Bodhi may not be what someone would call a Desktop Power OS, but it shaping up to be an excellent Minimal Debian/Ubuntu OS that allows the user to decide how it is going to be used.

Anyway. It is good to see more and more activity in regards to Linux here on the site, and we are glad to have as many contributers as we can get.
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