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View Poll Results: What is stopping people from trying linux?
Reputation for being to difficult to use and set up 10 66.67%
Software availability and development 8 53.33%
Hardware support 4 26.67%
I love Windows and want to make Bill Gates richer 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 29. May 2009, 12:29 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wdhpr View Post
Lets suppose you miss the whole point of linux?

Its an option. No one hear cares to shove linux down peoples throats. This after all is a thread called Linux on the Techsupportalert FORUM!
I believe and this is just my humble opinion.
Microsoft has been a monopoly for too long. Its grown FAT AND LAZY. Possibly GREEDY!

If that is what you are supporting. Windows 7 will placate the masses and prove your point correct.

For now

Cheers
Wdhpr
Windows is not a monopoly. You may install Linux or other operating systems as you please, nobody will stop you.

I love Linux, and I use it exclusively on several of my machines, I also use various flavours of Windows on a couple of machines, and I still have an old CPM system, complete with 8 inch floppy drives, among some other things which might well now best be described as "curiosities". I can still operate "Word" from keyboard shortcuts on every single Intel base system, ( or compatible like AMD) without even touching a mouse, or worrying about a GUI ( Graphical User Interface). Now that is just fine for me, but 99.999999%r of the computer using people on the planet could not care less what I can do, and have no ambitions to do it themselves.

The "trouble" if one might refer to it as that, is that people generally don't know what they want or need, and because Windows is the market leader, and they have heard of it, ( advertising is a wonderful invention, even better than Windows!), they choose Windows, or they buy a machine with Windows installed because that is what they find in the store.

There are a lot of people who think it is really disgusting that Bill Gates has earned so much money, (especially if they don't like his system! ) but this is just silly. All he did was to realise the American dream. His software revolutionised personal computing and the attitude of the general public towards it.

Is it the "best" system, "Yes, No, Perhaps.", it depends on what you want to do.

As a general rule, "if you don't know what something does, then you don't need it" is a good axiom to follow.

Why should you care what people install or use? It will not affect you.

Lastly, I think Linux is a much better system than Windows, and I use it a lot, but I don't much care what other people use, or what they think of my choices. They will do as they see fit regardless of what I or anybody else thinks or says.

Regards.....

Mike Connor

EDIT : I have the Windows 7 RC ( Release Candidate) running on one of my machines. It runs alright, with a number of caveats, but I don't like it, and I wont bother much with it, because it will simply cause me a lot of problems I don't need, and cost me cash to buy it as well. Just my opinion.

Last edited by Mike Connor; 29. May 2009 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 29. May 2009, 01:05 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Windows is not a monopoly. You may install Linux or other operating systems as you please, nobody will stop you.
Mike
In every sense of the word (monopoly) you are correct. However have you seen any computers being sold at circuit city, Wal Mart, Target etc.... With linux pre installed?
The average American will obtain their computers from places such as these.
Most will always use the windows installed with their machine. They get a restore disk (Not an actual windows disk), to repair their windows if things go wrong. . Replace some hardware and you may not be able to reinstall using the restore disk. This smells like a monopoly to me. This said Linux is still not ready for the average Joe/Joan.
Its hard to develop and alternative OS for the masses when the competition is so large and encompassing. The telephone company Bell was broken up and competing companies arose and the public benefited.

I don't want Microsoft to go away. I am amazed with their success and I think the company deserves the billions it has earned. That said, its time to open up a true alternative. How that is done I'm not sure. What I am sure of is a viable alternative to MS Windows will benefit the public

PS Mike, have your thought about being an Editor. They are going to start a linux section at the the techsupportalert site

Cheers
Wdhpr

Last edited by wdhpr; 29. May 2009 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 29. May 2009, 01:27 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wdhpr View Post
What I am sure of is a viable alternative to MS Windows will benefit the public

Cheers
Wdhpr
Plenty of places offer various machines with Linux pre-installed, but hardly anybody buys them. Also, and of major importance to everybody in the IT business, there is no profit to be made from free operating systems, and we live in a capitalist system. If nobody bought anything our entire system would collapse. ( Came close recently! Don't buy a house in America! )

Is this a good system? Hmmmm....maybe we should try installing "Communism 3.7.1.5 Alpha" ?

Or upgrading to "Republicanism 14.7.6.4 RC 47" ?

All you have to do is convince "The Public" that this would be better and they would do it immediately, ( although at least 60% would not care, and would not even bother to vote on it, and then spend a large portion of their free time whining and moaning about "The Minority" who "forced " them in to adopting a system they don't like and don't want, ( although they didn't bother to vote on it).

"Benefitting the public" is an occupation best left to politicians and other liars.

"The Public" does exactly what it wants, and then rants and rails over the consequences, which they might easily have avoided had they thought a little about it before actually doing something.

You can not save people from themselves.

I understand perfectly well what you mean, but it is a pointless crusade.

If you can help people here who want to learn about Linux, or how to use it, then that is really great, and kudos to you for doing it, but it really is pointless evangelising. Indeed, it will simply put some people off.

It's good ( for you at least!) that you don't want Microsoft to "Go away", because they aren't going to! But you can still install Linux if you want, and laugh at them.

It's a fun debate anyway!

Regards.....

Mike Connor
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Old 29. May 2009, 01:42 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Perhaps I allow my enthusiasm and naivety to get the best of me.

I agree ... Good debate

Wdhpr
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Old 29. May 2009, 02:22 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Your PS.

There are a lot of competent and dedicated people on this site, and Gizmo is of course a "guru", practically without peer. I read every single thing he posts, not only because he "tells it like it is", but what he writes is reliable. He doesn't just post the "same old, same old", that 400, 000 blogs from "experts" have copied from 50, 000 blogs from other "experts". Indeed, it would appear that he actually tests stuff himself!

The main advantage of the internet, is also its greatest problem,and that is the massive flood of information available. In order to even understand a lot of things you have to at least have an inkling about what is being discussed. Lots of people download all sorts of stuff, from complete operating systems to exotic "utilities", ( often they have not the slightest idea what they are actually downloading, or where it actually comes from!)

They are of course dumbfounded when the "Super anti spyware" ( no specific product implied) which prevents "Pseudo Anti Spyware" ( Really nasty stuff! Can ruin your personal relationships! ), kills their operating system.

The plain truth is , if you have no clue about these things,then either leave them alone, or learn about them.

There are no other sensible options.

Some day, perhaps in the not to distant future, somebody will offer a download like " I don't want to think today, please think for me, and tell me what I should do".

Lots of people will download it, and do exactly what it tells them to do. It may even work for the majority, or at least appear to, just like horoscopes, or reading tea-leaves...............

Whatever, once again I digress........

A number of people have suggested that I become an "editor", ( Still don't know exactly what that is!) on this site, but there are a number of problems therewith! Not least is the responsibility you then assume for giving advice to possibly hundreds of thousands of people! If you make a mistake, you might shoot down ten thousand computers, and the people who took your advice will hate you forever, ( Worse than Bill Gates, and you don't have his money as compensation! )

When you give advice at the sort of integrity level which seems to be fairly normal here, you have to KNOW what you are talking about, you have to use the software and systems concerned, not just assume various things, or copy stuff from various "experts", some of whom do nothing except spout bullxxxx every day and all day long.

To be honest, I don't really want that sort of responsibility. The people who run this site and those who contribute are "movers and shakers", and in the meantime they can "Make or Break", things. and even with "Freeware", this can have massive effects on what websites or developers can earn. A bad review here can "kill" a piece of software, and I am not really prepared to accept that kind of responsibility either.

So............. it's still fun to have a chat on the forums here, and if I think I can help in some way then I will do so. But, as a very very wise man one said, "My advice is worth exactly what you paid for it", and "My opinion might be priceless, or it might be worthless. Really, it depends on your opinion" !!

Regards.......

Mike Connor

Last edited by Mike Connor; 29. May 2009 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 06. Jun 2009, 08:12 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Well I have stayed in the background for now on this and read through, but the problems I have had on compatibility to hardware and stability is beyong belief as I have had plenty go wrong. As you know I have tried many 64bit Linux/Unix and not been successful. I decided today to bite the bullet and have another go at Debain 64bit. FORGET IT, it fell at the first hurdle. Yep I know should have tried to resolve it. But I have gotten fed up at resolving too many problems I just want to do photography, surf the net, not spend hours/weeks/months sorting out problems and not getting time to do the things I want. As interesting as it sometimes can be it is not what I want.

Yep still a sucker, but if it falls it ain't getting my attention now its deleted as Debain did today. Tonight I shall Centos 64bit and we shall see if that works. I don't know why I should just kick it into the gutter and leave it, but!!??
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Old 06. Jun 2009, 09:15 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Well I have stayed in the background for now on this and read through, but the problems I have had on compatibility to hardware and stability is beyong belief as I have had plenty go wrong. As you know I have tried many 64bit Linux/Unix and not been successful. I decided today to bite the bullet and have another go at Debain 64bit. FORGET IT, it fell at the first hurdle. Yep I know should have tried to resolve it. But I have gotten fed up at resolving too many problems I just want to do photography, surf the net, not spend hours/weeks/months sorting out problems and not getting time to do the things I want. As interesting as it sometimes can be it is not what I want.

Yep still a sucker, but if it falls it ain't getting my attention now its deleted as Debain did today. Tonight I shall Centos 64bit and we shall see if that works. I don't know why I should just kick it into the gutter and leave it, but!!??
I think perhaps curiosity combined with all the stories of success and accolades for such a wonderful OS. I have not experienced the number of failures you are referring to. However I truly believe your accounting of failures with the various linux distro's you have tried.

I went through 3 distro's starting with the all mighty Ubuntu, Debian and PC Linux. They all had problems with my hardware. A basic E-machine AMD semperon with Nvidia hardware controlling everything else. I installed Simply Mepis and CHAZAM Everything worked, that is with the exception of my Lexmark printer. I can not think about leaving Windows with out my ability to print. This is unacceptable. That is why I have maintained linux is not yet ready for the general public. I wonder if there is a way one can match their hardware with the appropriate linux distro. This would help people from going through the process of elimination. There are other issues with partitioning and booting that makes it a difficult option for the average person.

But its getting close
I just love the speed and clean interface of linux. For NOW linux doesn't have the security issue's of Windows. Given time I believe security will become an issue. You already see advertisement for firewalls and AV's for linux. Could be a way to make money off of people's fears.

I myself tried linux out of curiosity, that and my love for tinkering. Whatever the reason for trying linux one should remember that linux is still being developed and refined. (yes I know this has been happening for many years) What I hope doesn't happen is, people throwing all of linux under the bus because of problems with various Distro's, which there are many.

Cheers
Wdhpr
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Old 07. Jun 2009, 04:03 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wdhpr View Post
I installed Simply Mepis and CHAZAM Everything worked, that is with the exception of my Lexmark printer.

Cheers
Wdhpr
Wdhpr,
this procedure might get your printer working.
It's worth a try.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=49714

Let me just say this...
I believe that the people who put together these Linux distributions
are not the ones writing monitor and printer drivers.

The manufacturer of the hardware (Lexmark in this case)
is usually the one who writes drivers and makes them available.
When a distro doesn't recognize a hardware device it's very likely,
(but not all the time) that the hardware manufacturer never bothered
to make the proper Linux drivers or make them available.

In this case, Lexmark never made a Debian based driver package.
I'm not sure what it took to get the RPM package, but I'm sure
many people complained.

These same hardware manufacturers are probably falling all over
themselves to create WINDOWS drivers for every version of MS Windows
for Microsoft to include in their OS.

Some times we don't know the whole story and we
blame particular distros for not supporting hardware
or being unstable, when in actuality, the hardware
manufacturer may not have bothered to create the
necessary Linux drivers...
This is not always the case, but in this situation it is.

After all, only 1% of desktops use Linux.

Ironically, if many more people used Linux,
I bet most, if not all, of the hardware recognition problems would go away.
Just my opinion...
and no animals were hurt in the making of it
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Old 07. Jun 2009, 05:09 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by debtboy View Post
Some times we don't know the whole story and we
blame particular distros for not supporting hardware
or being unstable, when in actuality, the hardware
manufacturer may not have bothered to create the
necessary Linux drivers...
This is not always the case, but in this situation it is.
Most manufacturers look at returns on their investments. 99% market would be their target and priority.
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Old 07. Jun 2009, 09:04 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wdhpr View Post
But its getting close
I just love the speed and clean interface of linux. For NOW linux doesn't have the security issue's of Windows. Given time I believe security will become an issue. You already see advertisement for firewalls and AV's for linux. Could be a way to make money off of people's fears.

I myself tried linux out of curiosity, that and my love for tinkering. Whatever the reason for trying linux one should remember that linux is still being developed and refined. (yes I know this has been happening for many years) What I hope doesn't happen is, people throwing all of linux under the bus because of problems with various Distro's, which there are many.

Cheers
Wdhpr
I agree as I had two great 32 bit Linux working fine, Mandriva and Mepis, two great ones for even those who don't know where to start. Lets see what Centos brings. But as I go down the list of linx OS the more difficult and more command type written they become. Thats not what I want. Just about to load Centos and see how that goes.

Tony
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