Gizmo's Freeware Forum

Gizmo's Freeware Forum (https://www.techsupportalert.com/freeware-forum/)
-   Internet, Web Apps and Networking (https://www.techsupportalert.com/freeware-forum/internet-web-apps-and-networking/)
-   -   BitBox: World's Safest Browser (https://www.techsupportalert.com/freeware-forum/internet-web-apps-and-networking/8704-bitbox-worlds-safest-browser.html)

George.J 11. Dec 2011 06:43 PM

BitBox: World's Safest Browser
 
Ever heard of BitBox? Just came across this article now http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente..._security.html and wanted to share with all of you. Its much safer than sandboxing, worth a try if you dont care about the hefty 900MB download and that you're German :D

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/firefox-...ews-11203.html

What are your thoughts?

deya 11. Dec 2011 08:56 PM

Looks interesting, but that's one heck of a hefty download, and it also requires 2 gigs of HD space. I notice it has VirtualBox included as part of install so I'm wondering if that will conflict in some way with my other virtual program. It also recommends 64 bit and I'm running a 32 bit OS. Might give it a try though.

J_L 12. Dec 2011 12:46 AM

How in the world is it much safer than sandboxing? It is just another form of virtualization (virtual machine I believe), and I doubt it's more secure than Sandboxie with restrictions.

George.J 12. Dec 2011 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_L (Post 65118)
How in the world is it much safer than sandboxing? It is just another form of virtualization (virtual machine I believe), and I doubt it's more secure than Sandboxie with restrictions.


I'll get back to you soon after when am free. For now, Bitbox is armoured FF encased in a VM environment (Oracle) and housed inside a Debian Linux (which is inturn more secure). Even though it looks highly complicated, it works just like a regular version of Firefox. I hardly believe that normal users would want to use this type of security except for these Germans and their so called "highly confidential military purposes". :D

Sandboxie is not perfect and foolproof. Even they say that it should not be your only line of defense. And Chrome's sandbox is less restricted than Sandboxie

Quote:

How safe would I be, by using Sandboxie?

You would be quite safe using Sandboxie. It should be noted that, from time to time, people are able to find some vulnerability in Sandboxie, an open hole through which malicious software can still infiltrate the system.

This happens once every few months, on average, and is quickly resolved by closing the hole that is the attack vector.

Thus it's a good idea to have more traditional anti-malware software. This is is the subject of the following question.
Quote:

Do I need other solutions if I use Sandboxie?

Sandboxie may be your first line of defense, but it should certainly be complemented by the more traditional anti-virus and anti-malware solutions. These solutions can let you know if your system does become infected in any way.

Typically, those other solutions employ various forms of pattern matching to discover malicious software and other threats. Sandboxie, on the other hand, quite simply does not trust any software code enough to let it out of the sandbox.

The combination of the two approaches should keep malicious software -- which is serving the interest of other unknown parties -- out of your computer.


Also Sandboxie fails to box, 3D games properly and is known to provide conflicts especially softwares having large download size. There are more con's. I'll mention them when I get free

bo.elam 13. Dec 2011 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George.J (Post 65157)
Sandboxie is not perfect and foolproof. Even they say that it should not be your only line of defense. And Chrome's sandbox is less restricted than Sandboxie

Also Sandboxie fails to box, 3D games properly and is known to provide conflicts especially softwares having large download size. There are more con's. I'll mention them when I get free

George, certainly SBIE is not perfect but it provides better and quieter protection against unknown threats than any traditional anti malware or HIPS and IF you learn how to use it properly, knowing what it can do for you and more importantly, what it can not do, then you can run it on its own.

Sure, the perfect scenario is to run SBIE along an AV but Sandboxie does run better and it will protect you better if you run it on its own since doing so, conflicts between security programs will be avoided. Ok.

Programs that install drivers, dont install sandboxed. You are underestimating SBIE and your comments show me that you never used it or used it for 5 days or something like that. I have been using it for almost 3 years and nothing has ever escaped the sandbox and today, I run SBIE alone with nothing else. It feels great.

What is safer, SBIE or BitBox? I don't know and I don't care if you want to claim that BB is safer. It does not matter to me. Anyway, SBIE is more along the lines of the old proverb,"speak softly and carry a big stick". Those words made famous by TR, pretty much tell the story behind SBIE.:cool:

Bo

George.J 13. Dec 2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bo.elam (Post 65216)

Programs that install drivers, dont install sandboxed. You are underestimating SBIE and your comments show me that you never used it or used it for 5 days or something like that. I have been using it for almost 3 years and nothing has ever escaped the sandbox and today, I run SBIE alone with nothing else. It feels great.
Bo

:eek: What's going on here now. I do know that programs that install drivers does not install sandboxed, as well as softwares that does need to set up configuration files and that needs to access the registry. Which part of my comment mentioned anything about the drivers and such. Probably you havn't been infected, but as they claim...

Quote:

How safe would I be, by using Sandboxie?

You would be quite safe using Sandboxie. It should be noted that, from time to time, people are able to find some vulnerability in Sandboxie, an open hole through which malicious software can still infiltrate the system.

This happens once every few months, on average, and is quickly resolved by closing the hole that is the attack vector.

Thus it's a good idea to have more traditional anti-malware software. This is is the subject of the following question.

It should be noted, however, that Sandboxie does not typically stop sandboxed programs from reading your sensitive data. However, by careful configuration of the ClosedFilePath and ClosedKeyPath settings, you can achieve this goal as well.
Infiltrations have been reported once in a while. If you're working in a large organisations with lots of computers interconnected or having a highly confidential information, doesn't it mean that you're compromised to a large extent? Also you have to configure it to some extent for a desired level of protection. But BitBox works straight out of the box. An armoured FF encased in a VM environment (Oracle) and housed inside a Debian Linux is enough to know how safe it can be.

Quote:

What is safer, SBIE or BitBox? I don't know and I don't care if you want to claim that BB is safer. It does not matter to me.
I gave a hyperlink from the reviewer who have tested it and it's not personally not just my claim. IMO these protection measures that implement various levels of security like BitBox is sure to impress large organisation or the military only. Whereas Sandboxie is for all the users.

Also you have to know that, VirtualPC or VirtualBox is much safer than Sandboxie as it has no LINK between the host OS therefore it is impossible for the infection to spread to the host. So, all you have to do is delete the Virtual OS and create a new one.

Towards the end of this thread you can see the comparison of Sandboxie and a Virtual Machine. http://www.sandboxie.com/phpbb/viewt...0351360cefb388 .

bo.elam 13. Dec 2011 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George.J (Post 65247)
Probably you havn't been infected, but as they claim...

Thats not a claim, it is a disclaimer.

Hey George, can you find me some threads, posts about users getting infected even though they are using SBIE properly. I am talking about real people George, not laboratory tests. OK.

http://www.sandboxie.com/phpbb/

Bo

Taurus 13. Dec 2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bo.elam (Post 65262)
Thats not a claim, it is a disclaimer.

Hey George, can you find me some threads, posts about users getting infected even though they are using SBIE properly. I am talking about real people George, not laboratory tests. OK.

http://www.sandboxie.com/phpbb/

Bo

I've been using Sandboxie for over a year now. I am very familiar with how it works and I have never seen a piece of "security software" that offers better or more complete protect.

J_L 14. Dec 2011 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George.J (Post 65157)
I'll get back to you soon after when am free. For now, Bitbox is armoured FF encased in a VM environment (Oracle) and housed inside a Debian Linux (which is inturn more secure). Even though it looks highly complicated, it works just like a regular version of Firefox. I hardly believe that normal users would want to use this type of security except for these Germans and their so called "highly confidential military purposes". :D

Sandboxie is not perfect and foolproof. Even they say that it should not be your only line of defense. And Chrome's sandbox is less restricted than Sandboxie






Also Sandboxie fails to box, 3D games properly and is known to provide conflicts especially softwares having large download size. There are more con's. I'll mention them when I get free

Interesting, Linux VM eh?

No software is.

3D games like? Add proper exclusions (if you even have to), and no such issues. I've downloaded gigabytes w/o problems.

bo.elam 14. Dec 2011 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurus (Post 65266)
I've been using Sandboxie for over a year now. I am very familiar with how it works and I have never seen a piece of "security software" that offers better or more complete protect.

Yeah, once the sandbox is restricted, only whats allowed to run in the sandbox and connect to the Internet, would do so and if we block access to sensitive files and folders, the protection becomes complete.

On top, all is done quietly.

Bo

maplichen 14. Dec 2011 07:20 PM

I checked it out George and it's like you have basically said in all your posts here, overkill. Still, many people go for that kind of paranoid setup, and anyway, having it in a nicely integrated package is a great idea.

I'd say the difference in security between this and Sandboxie is probably of little significance. The difference might be something like 99.5% of browsing threats are prevented by Sandboxie whereas 99.7% are prevented by Bitbox. Either way, unless you are purposefully exposing your computer via browser to the latest and greatest malware threats every day you are unlikely to see any issues. I honestly do just fine with Google Chrome's comparably pathetic sandbox and a few tweaked settings as my only security, and despite monthly on demand scans, I have yet to run into a problem for quite some time.

George.J 15. Dec 2011 01:04 AM

Guys, I don't want the concept of safety to be misleading to all of you. How can we determine whether an antivirus keeps you safe? Is it just the blocking capabilities or even including the removal ability, in case you get infected? Similar is the case here.

Sandboxie is very safe. They have also said that or as bo.elam said disclaims that "from time to time, people are able to find some vulnerability in Sandboxie, an open hole through which malicious software can still infiltrate the system." (They have said "have" here, not "may have") And as you have said maplichen, that the difference may be too small like 99.5 or 99.7 etc. But the whole difference is made in the rest 0.3 % that determines the safety level.

Once Sandboxie has been compromised, there's no way even God can help you, because infiltration happens to your system. I mentioned before,
Quote:

"Also you have to know that, VirtualPC or VirtualBox is much safer than Sandboxie as it has no LINK between the host OS therefore it is impossible for the infection to spread to the host. So, all you have to do is delete the Virtual OS and create a new one. "
Even if that 0.3% turns back at you, remember that it's encased in a Virtual Machine and also at the other end you have it totally housed inside Linux not Windows still. Window's is actually having a puff on a cigaratte and relaxing. :D Your ass is still safe.

Finally I didn't start this topic to say how secure Sandboxie (which is a really good program) is, but to mention what other programs can do for you at the same time in a better and safer way. Just that someone likes the program so much that you don't like to switch from Sandboxie, doesn't mean that it's the only mechanism that's there in store for you to keep you safe. Hope I am a little more clear now.

Remah 15. Dec 2011 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George.J (Post 65430)
"Also you have to know that, VirtualPC or VirtualBox is much safer than Sandboxie as it has no LINK between the host OS therefore it is impossible for the infection to spread to the host. So, all you have to do is delete the Virtual OS and create a new one. "

George.J and others, I have a kind-of related question.

Is there no possibility of the VirtualPC or VirtualBox hypervisors being affected by software they've virtualized? I though that would require hardware virtualization?

I haven't tried either product so your views (and any references) would be useful to me.

George.J 15. Dec 2011 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remah (Post 65440)
George.J and others, I have a kind-of related question.

Is there no possibility of the VirtualPC or VirtualBox hypervisors being affected by software they've virtualized? I though that would require hardware virtualization?

I haven't tried either product so your views (and any references) would be useful to me.

This needs more explanation. Am at work now, will clear things when I come back. .For now, Bitbox implements Virtual Box which is the ultimate core of virtualization. It includes "Full virtulization, desktop virtualization and application virtualization", unlike Sandboxie which is a software virtualization software/Opearting system level virtualization. Remember that in BitBox there's also a securely locked-down ("hardened") implementation of Debian 6 Linux.

http://www.sirrix.com/content/news/63037.htm
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Virtualization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/10...-browser-ever/

George.J 15. Dec 2011 03:27 AM

Also everything looks quiet here too like Sandboxie. Since everything is incorporated within a browser, you feel like, you're only running a Firefox browser in Windows. Nothing complex, like VM or Linux or anything, not even an external sandbox, which is the best part :D

bo.elam 16. Dec 2011 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George.J (Post 65247)
:
Infiltrations have been reported once in a while. If you're working in a large organisations with lots of computers interconnected or having a highly confidential information, doesn't it mean that you're compromised to a large extent? Also you have to configure it to some extent for a desired level of protection. But BitBox works straight out of the box. An armoured FF encased in a VM environment (Oracle) and housed inside a Debian Linux is enough to know how safe it can be.

George, I don't agree with your views on SBIE but I thank you for bringing BitBox to us. Personally, I love this kind of programs so I am happy that it is available. The more options the better.:)

I am going to make a comment about SBIE, I ll make it short so the essence of my message does not get lost is a sea of words.

No one has ever seen malware escaping a restricted sandbox. The percentage of success is 100%, not 99.5 or 99.9999%.

----------
By using the restrictions, SBIE users keep malware from starting, running, accessing confidential information and sending it out of the computer.

Can you do any of this on BitBox?

Bo:)

maplichen 16. Dec 2011 11:15 PM

Hey Bo, when I commented before I was basing a low probability of failure on some things I had read regarding sandboxie and keyloggers. Having checked up on this, I see that you are right. It seems that if you are clean to start with, and configure the program properly, It is indeed 100% at the moment. A few people claim to have bypassed the sandbox, but they are, as you say, lab tests so I take back what I said before.

Still I like the idea behind this browser in that it runs silently to get the job done without bugging the user. Much like sandboxie. It's higher on memory usage (at least in my tests) but the integration at least means I don't have to worry about keeping two or more programs up to date just for safe browsing.

I know your post wasn't meant to compare the two George but, at least in my interpretation, the functional premise behind both is too similar to not look at them side by side. Good find, it's been a while since I've played around with a new program like this.

bo.elam 17. Dec 2011 02:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
maplichen, can BitBox be configured/restricted?, sort of like it can be done on SBIE.

When the Buffer Zone test is run on a restricted sandbox, the trojan demo designed to read sensitive files gets blocked by the restrictions, unfortunately this test can not be done using BitBox.
http://www.trustware.com/Free-Security-Test/

Bo

eyeb 17. Dec 2011 07:35 AM

something like this that has been around for years is hp's virtual firefox... it uses something like returnil's virtual layers system. I just found sandboxie to be as good but lighter on system and easier to configure

it's not supported and only released once so firefox version is on 3 something but you can install newer one over it

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport...tem=vc-64504-1

or if you really want to virtualize it, use one of those sites with cloud OS like eyeos or glide then surf on the browser there. since all you do is connect to site, nothing you do in there comes to your pc unless you specifically download it

George.J 17. Dec 2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bo.elam (Post 65649)
maplichen, can BitBox be configured/restricted?, sort of like it can be done on SBIE.

When the Buffer Zone test is run on a restricted sandbox, the trojan demo designed to read sensitive files gets blocked by the restrictions, unfortunately this test can not be done using BitBox.

Bo

Bo, the BitBox is encapsulated and isolated and run's in a separate virtual machine(you won't know it) with it's own O.S (Linux) when you run it, so it can't read any files on the main disk, like what Sandboxie does. It runs completly independent of the main OS. You don't have to configure it, at all for anything.

Access to internet is granted through a "guest room”, in which the browser operates and this "guest room" is in isolation from the base system of the network or computer system. Thus when you connect to the internet, you don't have to fear about the danger of downloads from the Internet by spyware or actual attacks on the main operating system, because these from the outside – out of the Internet - is not visible.

Best of all, every time the browser is restarted, BitBox resets to a different certified boot image and any infections are removed, while all downloads from the Internet are checked for their safety, before storing in the main operating system (it doesn't directly store in main O.S. It can be done by means of a shared folder which is accessible through a separate user account, hence unless manually moved out of the VM you won't even have trace of it on your desktop). So any existing malware that might have come through in the previous browsing session is isolated and totally eliminated -- all without having to continually run an antivirus scan of the system to weed out each and every piece of malware.

To keep things extra secure, uploads and Internet access are disabled on the base operating system once BitBox is launched. Thus the browser functions as a secure lock data. You won't know that all these are happening, because BitBox appears on the desktop like an icon. You double click it and you won't know that you're working on a Virtual machine in a different O.S, because it's as if you're just using Mozilla Firefox.

So you can say, its Sandboxed inside another Sandbox, without configuring anything.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.