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Old 02. Sep 2010, 06:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks gusy, didn't want to be the first one to point that out.

@chris.p
I guess you are aware of K-Meleon 1.6.0a4 (still in developement). Only issue is that most of the extensions don't work with it.
And if I may ask, why do you prefer W2K?
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Old 02. Sep 2010, 07:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well, it's very much the same deal for the many coders who still use Windows 3.1 to develop on. If all you want is the basic facilities and top speed, the latest all-singing all-dancing OSs are pointless bloat.

I do use the newer Windows versions but not for daily work, there is no point. My perfect OS would be a modern re-write of W2K to take into account the advances in web code support and security, but even without that it suits me fine. There are several issues on the horizon for W2K now, such as less support by new apps, and IPv6 support. I might even have to transfer to a mix of Linux and W7 eventually - but not this year.
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Old 02. Sep 2010, 07:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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@26D

I use W2K because it's so fast and simple compared to everything since. For work use I have no need of an OS that installs at 1GB or 3GB or whatever. None of it is any use to me and it just slows me down. As I say, a simple Linux distro would be just fine except it won't run my Windows apps (which all run on simple old Win OSs).

It's also why I use K-Meleon, it's so fast compared to Ffx etc. I don't have any extensions on K-M. I use Ffx if there is some tool I need like Firebug, as things like that are priceless and very hard to do without.

The problem with K-M now is that (a) its Javascript implementation is crippled and dead slow, like Internet Explorer, which is a bit of a deal-breaker for web pros. For example when working with CMS backends it just fails totally sometimes, which is no good as you can imagine. And (b) many of the new online apps are giving up support for it - Google apps, Google Calendar for example.

The trouble is, this is a break point in the web cycle, which churns every 18 or 24 months, and things are different after that point. Hard to see at the time but easily visible with hindsight. Many of the old apps are on the way out now, lots of big changes have happened. For example a modern CMS with a modern template system has a backend running on JS that allows you as much freedom as an HTML page - do anything anywhere however you want it, basically - but you need a modern, fast JS browser to manage it with. If you run K-M on any of the many JS benchmarks it takes 6 minutes to do what Ffx can do in 30 seconds.
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Old 02. Sep 2010, 09:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hi chris.p,

You know your business best.
I think I can't offer you anything more than a suggestion to try PaleMoon or maybe a custom build of Firefox.
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Old 04. Sep 2010, 03:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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PaleMoon sounded good till I looked it up and found it conflicts badly with Firefox, as it uses Ffx folders and application data.

I'm afraid that sounds like major incompetence by the devs so I'll give that one a miss.
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Old 05. Sep 2010, 01:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Well, I'm on Opera now and I like it. Tried it a long time back but didn't like it, it did everything so differently.

Opera's JS engine is very fast, at least 10 x faster than the prehistoric engine on K-Meleon. Also it scores an instant 100 on the Acid3 test. The Bookmarks management is terribly clunky compared to Firefox - but so is most every other browser's. It has a longish bootup time but less than Ffx I think (at least with no plugins anyway). Has some neat features like the way you can save on vertical space, which is useful. I'm still finding the idiosyncracies that every app has. For example on K-Meleon it is the slow JS, the occasional page crash due to unusual CSS interpretation, and the totally screwed favicon management, which is luckily just a 'fun feature' as getting something so simple right luckily isn't vital, just funny when it gets it so wrong.

So far all I've found, apart from the poor bookmarks arrangements, are that it doesn't seem to handle passwords too well. But maybe there's a secret to be found there.

So I'll stick with Opera. I love the speed, hate the clunky bookmarks setup, but I can live with that. Won't install any plugins, in order to keep the speed - will use Ffx for jobs that need those (Firebug etc).

Problem solved
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Old 05. Sep 2010, 02:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Update: great news!

Opera can actually scroll a page on www.telegraph.co.uk with more than ten pages of the site open in tabs!

This is an incredible result as the Telegraph site is one of the world's best known Worst Websites of the World That Actually Think They're Good. Firefox and K-Meleon are terminally paralysed* with four or five Telegraph pages open, so this is a fantastic result!
* Unless maybe you are running a Cray or something
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Old 07. Sep 2010, 03:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Opera: My Story - an update

Con:
It's very poor with bookmarks compared to Firefox, but the speed dial feature partly compensates for that. It needs the speed dial otherwise it'd be a dead loss.

It can't handle passwords at all. It recognises about one site in ten and fills the user/pass. I'm going to need a password manager, something unnecessary on K-Meleon as it is so slick with that. And unfortunately it looks as if Roboform won't integrate so I'll have to find something else. Bummer.

It also has a major security bug in the password manager, where it doesn't prevent a site login even when you set a master password. The master password window correctly pops up on the first session instance - but it doesn't stop the site login taking place in the background.

Pro:
Really fast browsing.

The JS engine is supersonic.

It doesn't suffer from Total Tab Paralysis like Ffx and K-M, where if a site in one tab locks up, every other tab is locked and the whole browser jammed up. It even passes The Daily Telegraph megacrap site test. Unbelievably good in this respect.


So...
The cons, a bunch of weird bugs that should have been fixed long ago, seem to indicate that this browser is run and tested on the latest Windows OSs, which automatically compensate for shortcomings in the browser's operational deficiencies and security. Run it on a simple old Windows OS and some holes appear. Strange.
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