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Old 19. Mar 2012, 01:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default OpenCandy safe and doesn't get installed?

This thread is being created after having posted in the page George.J's review for "Super Mario 3: Mario Forever" and having received replies from him. https://www.techsupportalert.com/con...o-fan-game.htm He recommends reading the OpenCandy.com and Wikipedia pages he provided links for in one of his replies, and also provides a link for the related techsupportalert.com article at the end of his review.

*** OpenCandy.com and Wikipedia ***:

OpenCandy.com is the vendor of OC, so I'm not sure it's what I'ld want to rely on for information about OC. The Wikipedia page provides a link to http://winscp.net/eng/docs/opencandy and the page explains how to avoid OC being used during the installation of an app. for which the installer uses OC. It's by either using the /NOCANDY command line parameter for the app. installer, or downloading an OC-free version of the app. installer, or installing a portable version of the application.

But based on the page at OC, it seems developers of free software can earn considerable income or revenue if we use OC. It'ld be great to help them, financially, as long as OC doesn't install, or, and especially, install and run at any other time other than when it's run by a software installation program that OC comes bundled with.

The related article here first says that OC will always be installed, but then adds that the vendor claims that OC doesn't get installed. https://www.techsupportalert.com/con...e-software.htm

There's one way to find out and it's to test this in a virtual machine. And I assume some of you have tested for this in some way. But the above techsupportalert.com article about OC and last updated October 31, 2011, says the following.

Quote:
Now to some readers all this may sound harmless enough but there is more to it:

(snip)

While you can elect not to download any of the programs suggested by OC you cannot opt out from installing OC itself; it is fully embedded in the installation process. (snip)

If you accept any of the software recommendations made by OC then not only will that software be downloaded and installed but OC will also permanently install itself on your PC as well.

(snip)

The makers of OpenCandy have published some credible counter-arguments. They claim:

(snip)

They also claim that OC installs nothing permanently on your computer should you choose not to accept any OC download recommendations.

(snip)
What that tells me is that, first, techsupportalert.com knows OC is installed, while the vendor of OC claims (emphasis added) "that OC installs nothing permanently on your computer should you choose not to accept any OC download recommendations". In other words, the vendor is saying that if OC is not used to install any of the recommendations it presents, then not only will none of them be installed, OC also won't be. techsupportalert.com seems to be very certain that OC is installed.

*** OpenCandy installed in my Windows XP system? ***:

I just did a complete search for anything OC on my Windows XP system by doing the following.

*) looking at the list of installed programs using ZSoft and Revo uninstallers;

*) using regedt32.exe to check the Windows Registry; and

*) using a file search program to search Program Files and Windows system directories.

The only things found is the following in the Windows Registry.

C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\Michel\APPLICATION DATA\OPENCANDY\OPENCANDY_43B2CA2E2C4F4BC99DB4269C3 DC14258\REALPLAYER_P1V2.EXE

It's found in both of the following registry keys:

*) HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\BillP Studios\Detected\ActiveTasks

*) HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-2032040097-1977504745-2228826596-1005\Software\BillP Studios\Detected\ActiveTasks

C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\Michel\APPLICATION DATA\OPENCANDY\OPENCANDY_43B2CA2E2C4F4BC99DB4269C3 DC14258\REALPLAYER_P1V2.EXE

It's surely not a problem, for they're registry entries from last fall and RealPlayer is no longer installed. Actually, it oddly is installed. It's just that it doesn't show up in Add/Remove Programs, Zsoft or Revo. And there are three files in the directory that has REALPLAYER_P1V2.EXE in it, while there's nothing else in the parent OC directory.

1763.ico
LatestDLMgr.exe
RealPlayer_p1v2.exe

Examining Properties:

There's no version information for RealPlayer_p1v2.exe, but the signature for the file says OpenCandy Inc., and the date also shown in the Properties | Signature tab is February 25, 2011. It's similar for LatestDLMgr.exe, except for the date being of March 2011.

Why would a RealPlayer file be signed by OC?

Wondering if RealPlayer does not thoroughly uninstalled when an uninstall of it is run, it came to mind to check if there's a "Real" folder in C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\Michel\APPLICATION DATA\ and there is. It has the RealPlayer subfolder. The program is gone, but there's a number of files in this subfolder and some of its subfolders. And I checked C:\Program Files\ a maybe an hour ago (working slowly due to fatigue after being awake for over 24 hours) to see if it had a "Real" folder and there was one. It also had a subfolder. Both were otherwise empty though and I deleted these when finding these a little while ago. So RealPlayer uninstalls aren't complete, or not for all versions.

Nonetheless, I don't see why a RealPlayer file would be signed by OC. I installed RealPlayer using a download from the Real website and not with any program that would've offered to install it.

Tuckered out and signing off. It's time for a short nap.
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Old 19. Mar 2012, 06:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't claim to know anything about OpenCandy, I just use the method of avoiding any apps I know uses it as I'm not totally comfortable with its methods, however, going in the snippets you have included here in your analysis I feel you have simply misunderstood the wording of what has been written about OpenCandy:

The techsupportalert article writes the following

'If you accept any of the software recommendations made by OC then not only will that software be downloaded and installed but OC will also permanently install itself on your PC as well.'

Emphasis on the if you accept part.

OpenCandy claims:

'They also claim that OC installs nothing permanently on your computer should you choose not to accept any OC download recommendations'

Therefore Techsupportalert are saying that if you accept installation recommendations, OC is installed permanently, and OC is claiming if you don't accept installation recommendations, OC is not installed permanently.

These statements simply confirm what the other is saying by explaining the opposites.

I beilieve what may have confused you is the statement from techsupportalert 'While you can elect not to download any of the programs suggested by OC you cannot opt out from installing OC itself; it is fully embedded in the installation process'. This statement I believe is suggesting that it is impossible to avoid being recommended software by OC, and that part of OC is what is being referred to as being installed.

But then again I may be totally wrong, but that is my understanding of what has been written.

Last edited by rikishi19; 19. Mar 2012 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 19. Mar 2012, 08:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Here's certain answers to your queries:

Micheal as far as I have analysed your statements, it appears to me that you have installed RealPlayer from OpenCandy product recommendations because LatestDLMgr was the download manager that OpenCandy used to download its recommended programs. Am not sure if it's the same right now.

Even after uninstallation is complete, it's natural that, you may have lefovers in the Applicatin Data folder. Also certain software programs after uninstalltion may have their corresponding folders in C:\Program Files also. But this folder will be mostly empty or emptied upon restart. The registry keys that you're pointing to is that of WinPatrol by BillP studios.

About OpenCandy

OpenCandy as I see it, is good adware or stricly in legal terms is not even an adware but an advertising platform. As they state, there are nearly 400,000,000 application installers that presently uses OpenCandy. I have been confused with the term adware for ages, even when I was preparing an article about Adware, which is still to be completed, and it means any software that displays advertising of any form. No antivirus right now in their updated database triggers any alerts on OpenCandy except for ESET. MSE, a while back triggered certain warning "adware/Win32: OpenCandy", but that was when a particular software breached OpenCandy policies. Only ESET inaccurately flags OpenCandy as adware right now.

For example good quality softwares like Avast and CCleaner are adwares because they contain bundled installers. They provide software recommendations that need not be necessary installed for their working.

Please read the following very carefully.

OpenCandy is a high quality advertising platform

Quote:
1. It does not place an opt-out of software recommendations like most adwares does, but only opt-in's which is a good advertising technique as you're given complete control of the whole process.

2. It even provides an opt-out of the whole advertising by issuing /NoCandy in cmd prompt during installation of a software

3. During installation process of a software containing OpenCandy it initiates a scan of the users system to collect certain non personally identiable information. It doesn't even store user's IP address. These are the items it collects
a) O.S version, language, country location, timezone of the computer running the installer.
b) Whether the software installation process was initiated, completed, cancelled.
c) If 3rd party recommendation was made and if so, it was accepted or declined.
d) If 3rd party recommendation was made, whether the recommended software installer was downloaded and installer initiated
e) If the installer was iniated whether it was completed or cancelled.

4. Even if the recommended software was downloaded, you can choose whether to install the software or not. Moreover it also ensures that the downloaded software is safe or not according to their stringent guidelines and practises.

5. Please read their privacy policy : http [COLON] //www [DOT] opencandy [DOT] com/privacy-policy/ to know, what they do with this information that they collect.

6. OpenCandy consists of an installer plug-in that runs during installation of downloaded software. Any files associated with OpenCandy to show product ecommendations, is removed after installation of the software. The download manager that its plugin(OCSetupHlp.dll) uses, is not installed on the system as it was designed to clean itself up, after downloading the product. . OCSetupHlp is extracted into temporary files directly which cleans itself after installation.

7. OpenCandy is not installed on the system and cannot be uninstalled whether the recommended software was installed or not. (In previous versions of OC, the plugin(OCSetupHlp.dll) stored a non personally identiable unique and random value in windows registry to prevent same recommendation from ever showing again, but this functionality has been depreciated in later versions and no registry keys are created hence). Probably this was what MC was talking about, during the time article was written.

8. The recommendations are made, after scan of users system, to see if the software is installed and if necessary files for its installation is available and an anonymous yes or no message is sent back to their servers.

If you prefer to download the recommended software using its ignite installation utility, the utility gets installed on the system to download the product. [
And finally OpenCandy is definitely not a spyware. The advertising platform works similar to that Google adsense to provide software recommendations, only that it doesn't work from within a browser. It doesn't even collect as much information than what your browser collects about you or even searching through Google, installing Chrome Browser or even lesser than what software updates monitor collects information about various softwares installed on your system and sending them to their servers.

Hope everything's clear now Others may be able to provide more information
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Old 19. Mar 2012, 11:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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OpenCandy is what is is, a means whereby one group of human beings set out to make money from another.

Even before PC's were in general use, schemes like Green Shield Stamps were seeking to encourage the purchase of items which consumers might otherwise choose not to have, or from a different supplier to their normal choice. The arrival of the internet just made the whole thing easier and the potential audience much bigger. No doubt next year it will be the “Roving Dinosaur” mass scanning cookie or the “Google Gotcha toolbar” making the headlines. Mobile apps of course are just an invitation to a feeding frenzy for these developers as recent exploits show.

The fact is, if you have money or something else of value, someone else will attempt to steal it from you, and if they have something which is of no value, they will still attempt to sell it to you.

The other aspect to this is that folks complain about it and yet continue to search high and low for the “best deals”. They also complain about privacy issues and yet plaster their life history in Facebook, cloud storage and genealogy sites.

Just getting back to the specifics of OpenCandy, this type of software is always developed for maximum gain and in so doing is likely to be very close to the wind legally and most certainly so ethically. As has been seen by the actions of the OpenCandy developers, the code itself and method of implementation is likely to change multiple times as they wrestle with a deluge of complains and a need to promote the cleanest image possible for what many will always regard as a dirty industry.

As with all things of this type, we see it as a service to our readers to supply enough information to make them aware of their existence and make an informed decision as to whether they accept it, or should look elsewhere. In some situations we may also venture an opinion which could be that of just an individual editor, or be collective and reflect a general site policy.

Basically, I think there are three main options for folks to follow here, although others may suggest more.

The first is to just accept OC as being part of the market orientated world we all helped to create and not worry about the database to which our list of installed apps and location details is fed in to.

Second it to adopt a preference against such schemes and elect to download software only from sources that don't participate.

Third is to go full out in disagreement which will inevitably involve the removal of Windows and the installation of Linux instead.
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Old 19. Mar 2012, 04:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thank you MidNightCowboy, and the others who replied.

I don't have the time right now to thoroughly read all of the other posts, but yours neither seemed too long nor too short, and I understand what you're saying. So, I'll let good freeware bundled with OC be installed.

With that said, however, I wonder why the techsupportalert.com article about OC says or seems to say that OC is always installed, then says the vendor claims that OC is not always (if ever) installed, without drawing any additional conclusion. This is what caught my attention. One says OC is installed, the other says it isn't. Of course people with computers powerful enough can use virtualization for testing, but people can't be expected to do this for everything they install, unless it's part of how they make their income..

Anyway, the whole OC-based article here seemed fine, until I got caugt up with this confusion. After all, anyone can claim anything. Proof is another matter.

You're right as is also the article here though. Things can change quickly; also drastically. It won't necessarily happen, but can.
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Old 19. Mar 2012, 04:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thank you to everyone who replied. I don't have time right now to read all of your posts, but see that there's fast response, here. So thanks to all of you.
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Old 19. Mar 2012, 06:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, I thought that you had a thing for making long posts, which is why I posted a longish reply in reply to all your queries, so that it gets well answered.
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Old 20. Mar 2012, 09:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George.J View Post
Well, I thought that you had a thing for making long posts, which is why I posted a longish reply in reply to all your queries, so that it gets well answered.
I don't mind long posts, but was very, very tired, worn out by the time I replied with the post that you replied to with the text quoted just above. It had been at least 24 hours since the prior sleep period. And I have some important things to see to during the first few days of this week.

I'm not in my 20s, 30s or 40s anymore, and often spend many hours before getting sleep. I also often don't eat enough to keep the energy level high enough to stay awake, but continue working, reading, studying, and researching anyway. It's until I'm so tired that it doesn't matter how hungry I am, sleep is necessary, so I sack out for rest. And then hunger wakes me up hours later.

It gets to the point that it can take 2 and sometimes 3 days to restabilize the energy level, due to going without eating for too long. The hunger gets bad enough that even after a normal number of hours of sleep, if I don't eat a plentiful meal soon afterwards, then I'm knocked out again within a few hours and can sleep another few or several hours. Energy is truly essential!

I live alone and am not always in the mood, say, to make meals when most people would be. So I often let myself go hungry for so long that energy is like completely drained.

I hadn't said that I was very tired, but certainly could have. And when I do, then it's not meant lightly at all. And my time isn't spent watching tv, either. It's spent on a computer, studying, trying different softwares, researching various topics, and so on.

And I appreciate informative writings, tutorials, and so on. So I'll make a point of returning to this thread soon to read the entirety of what each of you said in your replies.

I had read MidnightCowboy's post and some of yours, but didn't have time to read everything posted for replies and was tired. I hope you're not offended.

Last edited by Michel in Quebec; 20. Mar 2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 21. Mar 2012, 01:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George.J View Post
Here's certain answers to your queries:

Micheal as far as I have analysed your statements, it appears to me that you have installed RealPlayer from OpenCandy product recommendations because LatestDLMgr was ....
Thanks. I was wondering what LatestDLMgr was about or from, for I didn't think it should be from Real.

Quote:
Even after uninstallation is complete, it's natural that, you may have lefovers in the Applicatin Data folder. ...
Natural is not the word I'ld use, but let's let it pass this time. And I knew that the registry keys are of WinPatrol, which I've been using for very many years. I understood that they're also harmless due to being outdated, say.

Quote:
About OpenCandy

OpenCandy as I see it, is good adware or stricly in legal terms is not even an adware but an advertising platform. As they state, there are nearly 400,000,000 application installers that presently uses OpenCandy. ... (snip again)

For example good quality softwares like Avast and CCleaner are adwares because they contain bundled installers. They provide software recommendations that need not be necessary installed for their working.
Since OC is included with roughly 400mn application installers, OC should be open source so that independent parties can constantly verify changes and what OC's code presently consists of. So, is OC open source?

If it isn't, then who can guarantee that OC will remain safe to use for long? There'ld be potential for very serious risks being taken, otherwise.

MidNightCowboy ended his reply by saying that anyone who refuses to accept OC today and continues to refuse it in the future will one day end up needing to cease using Linux and Windows, both. He might be right, but only in a technically imposed sense; not a necessary one. And it nonetheless is NONSENSICAL for OS makers and maintainers to include anything they don't produce themselves.

Or maybe MidNightCowboy meant to say Linux distributions, rather than Linux itself. In that case, someone could create a new Linux distrubtion free of packages packaged with the inclusion of OC-binded, say, software. And if OC was free for Linux distributions, then there should be a requirement that OC necessarily be open source and independently modifiable. It'ld need to be GPL'd.

Possible potential risks with OC, if it isn't open-source, will be mentioned more further on in this post.

Quote:
Please read the following very carefully.

OpenCandy is a high quality advertising platform

And finally OpenCandy is definitely not a spyware. The advertising platform works similar to that Google adsense to provide software recommendations, only that it doesn't work from within a browser. It doesn't even collect as much information than what your browser collects about you or even searching through Google, installing Chrome Browser or even lesser than what software updates monitor collects information about various softwares installed on your system and sending them to their servers.

Hope everything's clear now Others may be able to provide more information
What's the source for what you quoted about what OC is? It seems like it's from the vendor, OC, which can make incomplete claims, if OC isn't open source.

OC does make a questionable claim according to the article at techsupportalert.com about OC, when OC says the following.

Quote:
Many installers from reputable companies scan your PC during the installation process to check for old versions, the existence of essential components and more.
https://www.techsupportalert.com/con...e-software.htm

The "and more" part is very questionable, suspect. I think it's Orbit Downloader that occasionally brings up a small message box or window listing some so-called updates that are available for other applications and if I remember correctly, I don't have all of the listed applications installed. But I checked once or twice about updates that the little message box listed update availability for and which I had installed. There were no updates available at the vendor websites. I won't use the links in the little message window or box that appears. Instead, if it mentions updates for any apps that are installed, then I go to the vendor websites to check for myself.

When PSI reports that some updates are available and my system has lost some security percentage points, then I trust this, for it's what PSI is used for. It's the purpose of PSI.

I prefer to be notified about update availability by PSI and the applications themselves; NOTHING else. And I don't need product offerings from anyone.

I don't need OpenCandy, and it better be Open as the name says; for open source software. Otherwise, OS makers would be very foolish, desperate and unprofessional for including OC with their offerings. And for non-free versions of Linux distributions, such as RHEL, there absolutely would need to be excluson of OC, unless a purchaser is specifically asked if they want OC included and the person or business, organisation, ... responds affirmatively. But OC shouldn't be included with free versions of Linux distributions, either; or if it is, then every package that includes OC during installation of the pkg would need to inform the user or person performing the installation of this adware's inclusion. It then should also be specified in the filenames or names of the packages, f.e., by adding "-OC-" in the name. And it should be clearly stated in the descriptions of these packages, while there should also be a file in every Linux distribution repository, a file specifying which packages come with OC.

CCleaner and Avira Antivir:

I haven't seen any ads with CCleaner and only get the historical nagger, say, from Avira Antivir Free or Personal. And I keep both up to date.

OC is purportedly or reportedly safe for the time being and let's hope that it remains that way; although, it definitely needs to be made open source, if it isn't, already. But I just tried a Web search (Google) to try to find out if OC is open-source and the OpenCandy.com website has pages mentioning open source and open-source, but not pages that are evidently about OC being open source. And I'll say more about this under the subheading of "spying" or something like that later in this post.

GNU and FSF:

Will GNU and FSF adopt OC? If they stick to their principled ways, then they won't include this if it isn't open source and GPL'd. And SourceForge.net projects definitely shouldn't, either. Neither should any principled Linux distribution maker. Linux itself absolutely must not include OC, but I think MidnightCowboy was meaning Linux distributions, rather than Linux itself. There's a big difference between the two.

Microsoft also shouldn't, since it's a propriety and commercial O.S.; and most of its important and very useful applications are also commercial, not free.

Spying:

Could OC be a ploy of the CIA or another federal "intelligence" agency among the 16 (or so) of the USA, f.e.? Google and others have been involved in this, for unconstitutionally. AT&T and other telecomm. cies were also involved in this, and it's proven fact.

It's certainly possible, and if it's the plan, then it might be a plan that'll develop only over time, gradually; rather than being fully functional or implemented from the start. Since very many Americans and foreigners are well aware of the fact that Washington has been extremely spying on Americans in an increasing manner since 2001 (even PBS has a 53-minute documentary about the NSA in this regard on it's NOVA Science Now program, "The Spy Factory"), there could be a plan for OC to become widely adopted and once Washington is satisfied with the number of adoptions reached, then start the completion of the implementation of the "spy plan".

The "elites" know to not "rock the boat" too much when public opinion grows against them to significant, say, scales, and that point has been reached, already or by now. When that happens, then they can decide to employ a more gradually increasing path, rather than a sudden one. Strategic operation isn't stagnant. Strategies can vary and often do.

I didn't view "The Spy Factory", yet, but came across mention of it yesterday and looked it up at PBS.org, where the program description says that this documentary is about the NSA's rather extreme surveillance, spying on Americans since 2001. I didn't view it yet, but there's surely much that the documentary doesn't mention about historical examples.

There are a number of strategic tactics employed by the "powerful", or "elites"; f.e., divide & conquer, infiltration of activist groups or organisations in order to try to either spy or stear them off track, or to weaken them. Lying is always involved, for deceit always is. There's nothing new about this, either. It dates back to very ancient times and has never ceased.

Politics possibly shouldn't be mentioned, here, but it needs to be pervasively of concern today; in all spheres of society, all social respects.

Again, OC says,

Quote:
Many installers from reputable companies scan your PC during the installation process to check for old versions, the existence of essential components and more.
"and more"!

That's the part that bothers me. I don't know of any installers of any applications, among those I have installed anyway, checking for more than old versions and existence of essential components; besides PSI! If any others do, then this is information that ethically needs to always be provided to the user in no mistakable terms. And it shouldn't be in the copyright or readme file, only. It should be stated to a person peforming an installation and right up front. It should be stated in the download Web page as well. And the details of what's being scanned for need to be stated; no omissions. Otherwise, the software maker or vendor is being secretive and that's something guard against.
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Old 23. Mar 2012, 12:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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~Facepalm~ Can't hardly believe we're back on OC O.O
It's like this with OC: take it.....or leave it.
Washington has been spying on Americans since Washington was built, it's the seat of the U.S. government and that's what governments do.
Consider this...the sort of people the CIA wanna spy on in any meaningful way are probably not the sort of people that would knowingly allow any type of spyware/adware to be installed on their computers, and often the OC recommended software turns out to be some shoddy registry wrecker that often as not renders a computer useless. What OC is, what it really is, is a tool used to dupe people who don't have the knowledge to know any better. Don't get me wrong, i don't like OC and anybody that's been around here for a while will know i was in favour of removing certain software from the site (back when i was on the crew here), but common sense prevailed and we chose instead to warn people about the potential risks associated with OC. Along with this we decided to monitor the OC situation with a view to blacklisting OC bundled products on the site should the need arise. That was probably the second most heated discussion i've been involved in on this site, and heated discussions are a rare thing in the Editors and Moderators forums so you can rest assured we took the matter extremely seriously. What OC is now, as far as this site is concerned, at least as far as i know, is a necessary evil if we're to continue to have all the good freeware we currently have, so like i said at the top, we just gotta take it or leave it. I choose to leave it.
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