Subscribe to our Review: Ubuntu 8.04 - "Hardy Heron"
"It's Hardy Heron for hardy heroes as Ubuntu still can’t fly." That's Briard's take on the latest Ubuntu Linux release
Over a year has passed since I asked the question: "Is Linux Desktop ready for ordinary users?". After a long journey, I concluded that very few Linux distros were, and that Ubuntu wasn’t among them. Edgy Eft was a good name for that version.
In a previous article called "Desktop Shootout" I compared Vista and Leopard with Ubuntu’s latest – 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. Leopard required hours to learn since I hadn’t played with Apples in years, while Windows took hours of tuning to make it run at acceptable speed. Despite some frustrations, both operating systems performed most common tasks. Ubuntu did not.
The Trouble with Gutsy
The first glitch was the install from the live CD getting stuck at 82%. The advice on the Ubuntu forums was that this was a common problem, easily fixed by turning the modem off and on again. I wondered why the guys at Ubuntu had not fixed a common problem that would be a showstopper for many newcomers.
Gutsy was said to come with compiz-fusion installed. The ‘Extra’ option under ‘Appearance’ put some lip gloss on the gibbon and provided a two-side workspace but no 3D cube. First we had to install NVIDIA drivers and compiz-config settings manager with Synpatic and then an ‘Advanced’ setting appeared in ‘Preferences’ and opened Sesame.
Emerald, the theme manager who provides gorgeous aeroglass, was missing as well, and his wardrobe was empty after installing him with Synaptic. It was clear from the Ubuntu forums that this was another well-known problem, fixed by installing Feisty’s wardrobe with a command line script or by downloading Emerald themes from gnome.org.
To add the finishing touches, we had to download Microsoft core fonts and tweak the Gnome Font manager. We were still in the make-up chair, of course, trying to match the good looks of Vista and Leopard.
Checking out a video on YouTube, we found Java and Adobe’s Flash Player missing. To install them, we had to download ‘Ubuntu restricted extras’ but after the install, we found that Flash Player didn’t work. We had to remove Flash Player and re-install it using another command line script copied from the Ubuntu forums. Flash player caused the same problems in Feisty and only apes know why it hasn’t been fixed in Gutsy.
To gain access to our Windows documents, we had to install the NTFS configuration tool. For reasons I can’t remember, we also had to install something called subversion. To play CDs or DVDs, we had to install some codecs, a job Ubuntu offered help with.
The end result was impressive, but simple users would’ve run back to Bill Gates’ breast, tearing their hair out and begging for forgiveness, long before they got this far. Whatever Ubuntu Gutsy was, ready for ordinary users it was not. That didn’t stop Linux Lovers going ape-shit over Gutsy, despite the gaps in his teeth.
Hardy Heron – Does it have Wings?
Even bigger things were expected of Hardy. The sole RC was released in mid April 2008 and I was curious to see if the guys at Ubuntu had addressed the issues I’d had with Gutsy. In this case, the RC is the dress rehearsal that precedes the finished production by mere days, and it is better to grab it than waiting for the finished product. This is why: When the production version is announced, all the Ubuntu lovers and reviewers out there jump on the Canonical website at once and bring it to its knees. If you have the RC installed, all you need to do is to grab is a few updates and you’re on par with the full production version.
Installation: Easy-Peasy
Ubuntu has added a new install option with UMENU (above) and WUBI, a program that lets you download and install Ubuntu as an application under Windows. There’s no need to burn Ubuntu’s ISO image to CD (but it’s still an option), or to partition the hard drive or to install GRUB since WUBI adds an entry to the Windows boot menu.
If you have an Ubuntu CD, you can pop in into your Windows system and choose to ‘Install Inside Windows’ with WUBI. Then you pick a drive with enough free space – minimum 4gb – your language plus a username and password, click Install and WUBI does the rest. As you can see below, the installer is a model of simplicity.
There’s nothing new about WUBI other than Ubuntu’s official endorsement - you could’ve installed Gutsy this way six months ago. That doesn’t mean WUBI isn’t a neat piece of software – it is. The hard disk partitioning in Ubuntu isn’t too daunting and the GRUB bootloader very dependable but, for simple users, WUBI makes installing Linux as easy as a eating a sandwich. It may encourage a few more Windows users to take the plunge.
Post Installation
As the introduction to this piece shows, my problems with Ubuntu have been further down the set-up chain: really basic stuff that’s missing. The guys at Canonical have long tried to please everybody, from the Linux purists who demand pristine open systems not tarnished by proprietary lines of code, to first-time users who cannot cope with the command line acrobatics required to install simple stuff.
Hardy turns out to be even less helpful than Gutsy, the list of missing bits even longer:
- There are no fancy desktop effects, can’t do, no help or reason offered. Anything beyond the basic Ubuntu brown wrapper look is blocked.
- There’s no help with NVIDIA drivers, which I know by now are causing the problem - no Restricted Driver Manager, no nothing. You’re on your own here.
- The only other option is a Hardware Driver icon in the Control Centre to help set the NVIDIA card up. It is no help, it turns out.
- Synaptic offers 3 NVIDIA driver packages and I happen to pick the wrong one out of 3 (generic, new and legacy – I picked generic instead of new).
- Once again, we have to install config-compiz sessions manager and other compiz-fusion bits. It’s lucky I know where to look.
- It’s the same story with the Emerald Theme Manager. Emerald’s cupboard is still as bare as a frog is from feathers.
- Can’t get the cube working for love or money, only a flip-flop panel in 3D space. In my despair I right-click the icon in the notification area which offers a choice of workspaces at last.
- Update check crashes several times, with the connection timing out. When it connects, there are no updates. After a Reload, another check says 104 updates are ready.
- The update process crashes and Ubuntu tells me that a number of updates couldn’t be installed.
- Installing more programs with Add-Remove meets the same fate – some get installed, others bomb out. There seem to be problems connecting to repositories. The traffic is clearly heavy and it occurs to me that I’m not the only one jumping on the RC.
- I can’t transfer data from my USB drive - Ubuntu refuses to mount it. This is a pain and yet another problem carried over from Gutsy. Later on I find an option in Ubuntu’s ControlCenter – ‘Remote Drives and ...’. It does the trick and mounts the USB drive. Hardy is truly a hit and miss affair. And unbloodyhelpful.
- The fonts are still awful, even after installing MS core and Redhat Liberation fonts. The fonts in Firefox are the worst I’ve seen in a decade.
- Suspend still doesn’t work – it freezes the laptop and only the power button can shut it down. Synaptic and Update Manager are also prone to freezing or crashing. Just now I try again but Synaptic won’t start and Update Manager goes into an endless spin cycle.
When I take a screenshot, the screenshot utility is in the picture, and then I loose my nice wallpaper. The screen goes black, then Ubuntu freezes up just like Windows does. The power button is the only thing that will switch it off. When I crank it up again, it goes through a chkdsk kind of routine and eventually comes good. Just like Windows.
I can’t get WIFI to work on Hardy. My laptop comes with a bog standard Broadcom WIFI chip but Ubuntu’s WIFI drivers option simply opens the file manager as if saying: it’s in Windows somewhere – go find it. I dig around for the Broadcom program folder and, after some trial and error, I find a .inf file Ubuntu is happy to install. Great! What now?
After unlocking the network toolkit with the Policy Kit (a very big pain, this one), Ubuntu tells me that the driver is installed but I can’t see any WIFI networks yet. Google points me at a tutorial: WIFI – step by step installation for Broadcom network cards
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=766560 It looks like a fascinating script and involves wrestling with characters called ndiswrapper, wpasupplicant and fwcutter. I have no intention of getting tangled up with these guys - I’ve done it too many times before and lost.
Ubuntu also gets up my nose for demanding my password for every task, even if I typed it in 2 minutes before. I figured out how disable UAC in Vista but I’ve no idea how to do that here. The new theme should’ve told me that I was dealing with a Hoary Old Bird.
There is some upside in Hardy. CDs and DVDs play out of the box, to my great surprise. And Flash Player installs okay after FF offers to look for the missing bits and install them.
If anyone tells you that Hardy Heron is the Ant’s Pants of Operating Systems, they’re lying. It’s just more of the same old muddle – a brilliant but flawed performance by a director who simply doesn’t understand his target audience.
I hate to complain about something that is free but we have an AIDA-sized chorus of starry-eyed Linux Lovers and disenchanted Microsoft Minions telling us that this distro is ready to take on Redmond. Bullshit! I’d rather work with XP any day - it’s easier to set up and more stable. So was Gutsy.
Ubuntu’s failure to deliver on the enormous promise Linux Desktop showed a year ago is an inexplicable letdown, at a time when Vista has had the worst press I can remember Redmond receiving for anything.
Hardy 8.04 is worse than any version of Ubuntu I can remember installing, making Canonical’s claims of greater stability a bad joke. Hardy Heron is Ubuntu spelled backwards. Hardy Heron is a bird without feathers. Make that without wings.
The folks at Ubuntu are making sure that Linux desktop remains exactly where it’s always been: out on the margins, pleasing its coterie of fans and no one else. Yes, it’s that bad.
Apart from WUBI, Hardy doesn’t offer anything new of any substance. Firefox 3 beta 5? I’ve had that running in Windows for weeks. Brasero Disk Burner? Ho hum. Policy Kit? A clumsy overture towards corporate techs who want to limit what users can do.
But what about simple users who can now install Ubuntu under Windows? Great, but you’ll never see Ubuntu in its full glory unless you have a ton of inside knowledge and the patience of Jobe. Wthout the eye-candy of compiz-fusion and emerald, Ubuntu’s a pretty dull-looking affair. Why make it such an obstacle course for users to see this distro in its full glory?
Better Options
For many months, PCLinuxOS has held the top slot at http://www.distrowatch.com . The reason? PCLOS is a whole lot easier than Ubuntu to get working properly. So is Linux Mint, which is based on Ubuntu. Of course, distros like these only exist because distros like Ubuntu don’t deliver.
What the Mint guys have done with Ubuntu is astonishing. More surprising is that they truly understand what it takes to make Linux an easy choice for ordinary Windows users. The team at PCLinuxOS understands it as well, and so do the guys at SimplyMepis.
If the major Linux desktops want to capture a broader audience, their developers should stop and think instead of going around the same old circles. They need to work harder on providing a better experience for a broader audience. Linux Mint, Mepis and PCLinuxOS have shown how to do it.
Linux has so much to offer, from great performance to a great range of free and valuable applications. With a little more effort from leading lights like Ubuntu, Linux would be ready to step out of the darkness for good. But that isn’t likely to happen anytime soon.
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Really very nice article.......
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Greatly written indeed… I really enjoyed your article and found it to be very informative, keep up the good work, I’ll be coming back to read any of your future articles..Say No to anyone who wants to buy steroids online.
I have had limited experience with Linux and the last time I tried it was a few years ago. I installed Hardy Heron on my main desktop using WUBI since my Lexmark x1185 is not easily made to work with Linux. My other computer I went ahead and wiped XP Pro SP2 and just replaced it with Hardy.
HELP
Hey y'all;
I got an older laptop that I'm slappin Linux on but I need Linux that has support for:
Network Authenication
WPA-PSK
Data Encryption:
TKIP
I say that cause I have a wireless connection in my house that I can't seem to get the latest edition of Ubuntu to connect too. So any and all help be greatly appreciated.
Been using linux for about a year now. Dual boot winxp and Mepis. Tried Ubuntu, mandriva and debian. Ubuntu had nothing but hardware issue's. The others had install issue's. Not knowing a thing about linux I just continued to experiment with various versions until I found Mepis. Installed first time. Found all my hardware except my printer (lexmark is a problem on most linux systems)anyway Mepis is based on debian and uses the debian deb packages for its apps and utility installs all can be downloaded and installed using synaptic. A nifty lil app that does it all for you :-)
What I have found is mepis can be fast. Faster than any windows os I have used. My advice is to go slow. Don't try to do too much in the way of extra bells and whistles until you understand the linux command line. Several times I had to reinstall because I lost my logon gui. Could not figure out how to get it back even using help files and the support site. Speaking of forums for help. Better have a thick skin if your a newbie.
I will keep my windows as I continue to learn more about linux. I am all for competition and its about time big fat microsoft gets a kick in their rears.
PS you can use allot of window programs in linux using (wine) a cross platform utility.
Cheers wdhpr
My personal experience has showed me that Linux is great with ones labtop as opposed to home computers, where Vista is much better.
Bigger and bigger seems to be the philosophy, not better and better. I expect Canonical will waver unsteadily between the two, and the users will not be well served in the end.
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This review accurately reflects my experience with attempting to install and operate Hardy Heron, above all, the wifi connection. I have the dreaded bcm4318 chipset. I have ready dozens of pages of tutorials and instructions on how to install the right software using ndiswrapper, etc. After days of labor I give up. Something so standard as establishing an internet connection should not be so complicated in a mass distribution OS.
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Thank you very much.
At my office, i was the only one who insist to use linux (ubuntu & puppy linux).
I don't know at all about programing... but now, our office migrate to linux and keep 25 staff happy...
No virus, no malwares, crash free and no need to upgrade the hardwares.
Office, freeCad, GIMP works for me....
Life is good if you are not lazy...
It's nice to help each other...
I think i have true choice to use linux/ubuntu for any reason:
for 5 year i use linux its no virus attack its different with ms (in my office use ms) our it manager busy with virus attack everyday
I have the dreaded bcm4318 chipset. I have ready dozens of pages of tutorials and instructions on how to install the right software using ndiswrapper, etc. After days of labor I give up Something so standard as establishing an internet connection should not be so complicated in a mass distribution OS.
Well, I'll never give up my Win2K, personally, as that is by far the best OS ever released. Apart from Linux for servers of course, as you need an attack-proof OS for that. But what am I going to do in 10 years when the new software and won't run on it?
I have yet to try a Linux distro that works 'straight out of the box' without fiddling around with unix command line.
Hardy Heron comes close but doesn't support the popular Atheros laptop wireless card. Neither does PCLOS or Mint. I'll stay with Windows until Linux gets properly sorted, like never probably.
Your article is spot on! After spending something like two weeks just to get the wireless working, I was rolling in laughter when reading your article. I've wanted to use something different than MS, but linux misses the target. Ubuntu 8.4 and 8.10 just didnt work for me regarding wireless. getting the driver installed required getting a phd in CS. No thanks...Unfortunate because there is potential. Should listen to some average users instead of the programmers who enjoy "computer problems".
My take.. Ubuntu is "the facebook" for programmers. Both are huge time wasters.
Linux needs to: 1. refocus on the 'average' end user. 2. Create focus within all distributions on getting hardware vendor support. The strategy could be to create a hardware list for the system Specs. The end user would know- If you buy this hardware your system is guaranteed to work. Then the Linux community could work with the Hardware companies to cultivate a focused profitable niche for those companies. In the hopes of leveraging Linux value proposition to other hardware companies.
Most people can't take that... And lets say they started out with Gentoo or something like that? Not a good first choice, but many wouldn't know that... There is just too many distros out there... In some ways it is good because you get variety, but it just makes it way to hard for the normal person...
But free is a relative term when you add the countless hours of -- going back to my automotive analogy -- having to learn how the carburator works before being able to turn on the radio. My time has a greater value that the monetary savings of Linux software.
but is not an end in itself. Perhaps it's just that people attracted to the tasks of the open-source world love neat new tech challenges but hate the mundane gruntwork that solving these shortcomings really calls for.
The Trouble with Gutsy - if you said that when you installed ubuntu, then it got stuck in 82%, maybe it because data redundancy cyclic. that was happened because your dvd rom's lens is break or maybe too old to install from cd. I have ubuntu hardy haron from netherlands, and I istalled them, there's no problem at all.
POST Installation :
a. Fancy desktop effects? i don't think so. I have a slide when I want to move from another windows to another windows, look like a macintosh. thats good.
b. NVIDIA driver? oohh.. just try and find, because I use acer, and all part from my laptop detected very good and nice.
c. and the rest of your complain I didn't find in ubuntu.
just try again, and don't blame ubuntu that bad. How much microsoft pay you? I don't know how microsoft can make you addicted like that. Come on lets go opensource now.
Oh Linux. Sigh. The OS I want to love, but can't.
Linux is like the girl (or boy depending on your view) who seems to promise everything your heart could desire. But the more you get to know her, the more you question if she's right for you.
I'm not a neophyte, unable to understand Linux. I've been using and programming computers since 1976. In days gone by I've modified and compiled my own Linux kernal to support a unique hardware configuration. I can also rebuild the engine on my car. I'd rather not do either.
But what if I were that neophyte? A visit to any Linux help forum is repleat with newbie bashing. Sorry guys, but Linux currently is not ready
for the mainstream.
Linux is however, the ultimate tinkerer's computer. Given enough time you can get it to do just about anything, and for free. But free is a relative term when you add the countless hours of -- going back to my automotive analogy -- having to learn how the carburator works before being able to turn on the radio. My time has a greater value that the monetary savings of Linux software.
So, Linux, babe, you might be sexy and a cheap date, but I've found that I've no time for such a high-maintenance relationship.
I'm using Linux Mint more or less happily, the grand exception being hardware installs, which as you found, still take way more time to resolve than should be the case. Linux lovers like to tell potential noobs about the "wonderful support" offered in the Linux forums. Trouble is, it can take endless searching and waiting and tweaking and failing and trying again before the "support" actually materializes.
I like Mint Linux - a lot. I fear Ubuntu for the single reason that Canonical/Shuttleworth seem more marketing-driven than Microsoft. And that's incredibly dangerous. An operating system MUST be stable, or the whole house falls down. And there's no better way to create an increasingly unstable OS than to update it on a fixed schedule. It's Just Plain Nuts. If Canonical stuck to improving stability and debugs every six months, that would be one thing, but flash-bang wow-em "features" are a disaster. Bigger and bigger seems to be the philosophy, not better and better. I expect Canonical will waver unsteadily between the two, and the users will not be well served in the end.
PCLinuxOS may evolve slowly, thanks in large part to its tiny development team; but they do seem to understand that quality counts more than quantity, especially when you're building the foundations of house that you'll have to live in day by day. Similar for Clem and Mint - he seems to care about the user's experience. Using Mint, I feel "Yeah, this is Ubuntu repaired and cleaned-up, as it should have been in the first place."
You know what Ubuntu and other Linux companies need? To hire more women developers. I don't care if it sounds sexist, but women are more driven by quality.
Briard:
Your experience and opinion of the state of Linux releases certainly rings true. For years I've wanted to find a linux distro that would make an older PC run smoothly when MS's latest bloatware gets too big. Yet every distro I've tried has left me frustrated with installation problems. Who would think that software aimed at the common consumer would be confounded by a mainstream video card or a serial mouse, yet both happened to me (different flavors though) along with other problems. The best hardware recognition so far comes from Knoppix, but since it's designed as a live CD it runs slower than WinXP. Linux fans seem oblivious to the fact that most people don't like wrestling with software and have no need or desire to climb technical mountains in order to attain a trivial function. For most of us software is a tool to make some aspect of our lives better (ususally easier) but is not an end in itself. Perhaps it's just that people attracted to the tasks of the open-source world love neat new tech challenges but hate the mundane gruntwork that solving these shortcomings really calls for.
Bigger and bigger seems to be the philosophy, not better and better. I expect Canonical will waver unsteadily between the two, and the users will not be well served in the end.
Ubuntu 8.4 and 8.10 just didnt work for me regarding wireless. getting the driver installed required getting a phd in ESL. No thanks...Unfortunate because there is potential. Should listen to some average users instead of the programmers who enjoy "computer problems"
I will not point out the most interesting things from the article as I too find Hardy Heron a bit rushed. There is fierce competition in this very small market that you call Linux Desktop between distributions like Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Gentoo, SuSE. None of them affords to loose users to the other side (other distribution) but this happens all the time, if you don't get things out. This is why Fedora 9 started with a flawed sound server (big annoyance), Ubuntu 8.04 came with broken HP printer drivers (huge annoyance), SuSE ships with a problematic Konqueror (deal breaker).
While all these are serious problems for an end user and are certainly not making the Linux market share go anywhere, all those are the reasons you see Linux where it is today: on the server, on the desktop, on the smart phones, on internet tablets, on the smart switches and appliances, on ipods and gameboys.
Progress... Fast progress. Windows 1.0 was released in 1985, MacOS was originally released in 1984. The Linux kernel started to be developed in 1991 and the user interfaces started in 1996 (KDE) and 1997 (GNOME). That is a 10-12 years of delay compared with the other 2. This amount of time in software means ages. Do you remember the games you were playing 10-12 years ago?
Another thing you may forget when complaining "codecs don't work, flash doesn't work, drivers don't work" is that those codecs, drivers, software, etc. are restricted by patents. And there are some companies out there that try to find any way of suing a Linux distribution (see SCO vs many, and dig into who backed SCO suicidal attempts). There is 1 (one) company that seems crazy in throwing all the software it owns into the public domain and that company is Sun. Make others (Adobe with Flash and Photoshop, M$ with .Net and Office, Oracle with the database, hardware vendors with the drivers), do the same thing and we'll get pretty decent compatibility. I mean... you can't expect those geeks to come up with 100% compatibility by themselves, do you?
Next in line are... games... there are some decent OSS games out there. Many are so impressive that I could not touch commercial games after I've played them (like Nethack vs Diablo, Globulation vs StarCraft). Granted, the graphics are not the same (or simply missing) but you've got something between your ears that can replace the best quad-sli setup in the world: your brain.
And when you're talking about people not using full-time Linux because Photoshop does not run on Linux... :) you are wrong. Gimp is not Photoshop but for the 80% functionality I find the price quite competitive. And not everybody is a professional photographer to need the 20% functionality or to afford the price difference. Oh... did I mention... Photoshop actually runs on Linux... if you need proof just search "Photoshop wine linux". And so does IE5.5, IE6, IE7, IE8, WMP, Skype3, WoW, YM!, etc. It's not easy to setup, it may be even illegal... but they do work.
Bottom line: criticism is good as long as you keep an objective mind. And my opinion is: Linux is NOT and OS that is easy to install for a newbie. Get a guy who knows what is doing to do it for you or get a system with Linux pre-installed (and a restore CD) and you need 0 effort as a user to maintain it. This is valid for any major distribution, Ubuntu, Fedora, you name it. There is another option also: wait 4 months after the release date, install and update immediately. Many things will be fixed and simply work out of the box after this. There is a 3rd option: read a forum explaining the installation process for your specific hardware before installing.
I, for instance, could not install Vista 64 Ultimate on my home PC. It would simply hand during installation. I went back and took the Vista 32 Home. That was installed. But I had no network. There was a "non trusted Cisco Router device" linked to my network card. So... after disabling all possible firewall settings and network related security settings, setting a static IP (since DHCP could not retrieve IP address from a non trusted device), I was finally able to google for the network related problems. Fortunately I live in France and I had 8 days to take back the software (I needed only 2). And I do have a computer science degree, 15+ years of experience with computers in general, and a friend working at M$ (engineering) helping me during install.
This review accurately reflects my experience with attempting to install and operate Hardy Heron, above all, the wifi connection. I have the dreaded bcm4318 chipset. I have ready dozens of pages of tutorials and instructions on how to install the right software using ndiswrapper, etc. After days of labor I give up. Something so standard as establishing an internet connection should not be so complicated in a mass distribution OS.
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I'm amazed. Really amazed. I have only tinkered with Linux here and there, never really used it. After I tinkered with Ubuntu 8.04 for a few days I went ahead and set it up on all the computers in the household. That's no small thing in my household. My son's laptop, my daughter's laptop, my FIVE laptops (all different makes and models), my wife's laptop, and the household file server were all loaded with 8.04.....without drama. Add to that a couple of local printers, two network printers, two local scanners and a network scanner, and perhaps you get the idea that my home network is bigger than many small business networks.
And...in addition to that....it absolutely rocks. It looks great, runs perfectly and fast, and everybody can use it. Nobody else in the house had ever touched Linux. My 12 year old daughter and 7 year old autistic son can even use it without issues!
Now....I can see you had some problems....but it would seem my hardware was much more varied than yours and I simply didn't run into what you did. Why?
I don't know. But honestly, it seems that your article might be biased.
I live in France and I had 8 days to take back the software (I needed only 2). And I do have a computer science degree, 15+ years of experience with computers in general, and a friend working at M$ (engineering) helping me during install
Thanks for great comment buddy! Some people seem to see the world the way they expect it to be instead of evaluating the facts honestly. I did have some problems with installing 8.04 on my desktop. For some reason installation failed twice while trying to install 8.04 version from CD. Even though, I managed to achieve the sucsessful end state trying the 7.04 version first then upgrading it via internet to 8.04. I like Ubuntu and as for simplicity of use it's just amazing, much better than Windoze. When something is missing Ubuntu tells you what exactly you need, then offers to search for it on the internet and installs it. SO WINDOZE DOES one may say! YES, but I have never seen WINDOZE having found a driver for me on the internet. It does search, but never founds. M$ pull the wool over our eyes just to get out more money out of us. Linux accomplishes in a blink of an eye, and if it goes for something it delivers it as well. The only problem with the hardware I can mention ATI Rage 128 video card. Since I hate PC games I never buy expensive 4D video cards but modest ones only. This time I could not run Ubuntu on my PC, once X server started the screen froze up as it would happen in case one tried to run WinXP on i386 PC. I switched to ATI Radeon 9500 and works fine for now.
Hmm, well what I don't understand is how some people say that they use linux exclusively or almost so... There are many programs out there that just don't run on linux and linux doesn't have a equal opensource option... I've used linux, am I a proficient user, no I'm not, do I like it, yes I do. I think it is great, but a very long ways away from becoming a big contender in the desktop OS field. IMHO it is to spread out... Go take a look at distrowatch.com how many "flavors" are there? When I first started looking at linux I was overwhelmed by the selection... Most people can't take that... And lets say they started out with Gentoo or something like that? Not a good first choice, but many wouldn't know that... There is just too many distros out there... In some ways it is good because you get variety, but it just makes it way to hard for the normal person...
Plus, I'm a video gamer and getting games to work under linux is a bear if they work at all... My wife is a photographer and she needs photoshop, and don't tell me gimp is equivalent because it isn't, I've tried it.
My point, linux isn't ready for the normal desktop. I hope that one day soon, when I do my IT housecalls I can install Ubuntu or something on computers because I know that it will be easier and cheaper for the people involved.. But at this point its sadly not the case.
im using ubuntu 8.04 for the first time and im finding it easier than pissing in a pot
I agree, my first contact with Linux as an experienced Windows user was also very easy. After learning some terminal commands - if you want to - you're ready for rock n'roll !
I read your review with great interest thinking that your experience with Hardy would be better that Gutsy. I have been using Ubuntu now for a few years but I don't consider myself a "fanboy" at all - I still use XP (and like it) and I bought my wife a Mac (under the mistaken belief it would be easier for her). But, I find that I still prefer Ubuntu. To be fair, this is a pre-release version (as you note) and many of the issues you discussed were fixed in the final version. However, a quick trip to the Ubuntu Forums will show that people are still having problems (and always will). My main concern are the comments from those that wrote about the treatment they get from long-time linux users and especially on the forums (such as Mike's comments). If Ubuntu wants to become more widely used (as the developers hope for) then it has to be user friendly. Not just as an OS but also to people trying to find help. Since their is no phone number for people to call to get help, the forums must be a place were even the most novice person can come and feel comfortable that they will get help and not get flamed. Unfortunately, many Ubuntu users don't seem to understand this or don't care. I've written tutorials (I go by the name cozmicharlie) and helped many people on the forums. Since I usually help people in the "Absolute Beginner Help" section I know first hand how some people are treated. Nothing pisses me off more when some person on the forum responds to a "newbie" post with some snide comment about using Google or searching before you post. They don't seem to understand that some people don't even know what to search for and when they do, many times they cannot determine which posts will really help or decipher the language of linux to know what to do. Unfortunately, my only answer is to have thick skin and ignore the responses from these assholes (I believe their are far more people that really want to help). I also have learned to go to the tutorial section first when I have a problem. These are better quality and are also screened more thoroughly by the mods. I believe there are lots of people like me that are very willing to help new users. I believe in the Open Source philosophy and I think computing is too important to leave to one (or two) companies to control. I hope you will review Hardy again now that it is officially released (hopefully you will see some improvements have been made already). For those of us that really want to see Linux OS become more widely used, we have to stop flaming people that give bad reviews (or those that post for help) and start looking at solving these issues or we will always be relegated to a minor share of OS market.
Well, I'll never give up my Win2K, personally, as that is by far the best OS ever released. Apart from Linux for servers of course, as you need an attack-proof OS for that. But what am I going to do in 10 years when the new software and games won't run on it?
The Unbeliever
mint, gutsy and hardy all worked pretty well out of the box for my toshiba a80 1.4 celeron 512 ram 40g hdd. problems surfaced after installing extra programs - made the mistake of allowing level 3 installs (thought to be ok but not checked). i hadn't changed the setting but after problems as already described appeared i noticed the synaptic update sometimes showing updates available and sometimes as up to date, i guess it was toggling between level 2 and 3 for some reason. and add/remove programs went from occasional freezes which could be canned to only reboot to fix and freezes every time. i'm going to zero my drive again (had to for first linux install as it aborted install each try until i did this) and reload 'mint' i guess and see how things go with only high priority updates and fully certified programs for this distribution - same for gutsy or hardy which i'll put on my second drive (requires physical swap). i'll come back here and report - maybe a week.
everything is sweet now without reloading. i had a program called orca auto running on start and couldn't shut it down (first few starts i could) and i couldn't remove it with Add/Remove as it greyed out and sat there with the little wheel turning and couldn't shut that down either. so i set 'Allow local system administrator login' (System-Administration-Login Window and Security tab). switched user to root used add/remove to get rid of program then switched back and picture perfect. for security you should go back in and disable admin login. so check if an autorun addon is causing your problems - if you can't can a program or it seems a bit erratic, then there may lie your problem. good luck and lay off the abuse of the linux developers of any flavour as buggy addons which may only show themselves on certain hardware: eg. celeron processors, certain motherboards with certain addon cards, even memory brands that otherwise function normaly etc. regards to all from ken markham (just an old fart).
Preach it like you feel it, Briard. As always, incisive.
I was wondering when you'd review Mint Darnya. In large part due to your "Linux as an Alternative to Vista" series (which needs to be ported to the new site, STAT), when I needed to reinstall XP in January, I also repartitioned my drive to try out the Linuxes. I thought I was just going to play around for a while, but I'm now using Mint 4.0 KDE CE as my primary OS (I've just virtualized my XP, and assuming there are no glitches, I'll remove the "real" version, and be 99.8% Linux). Mint is my personal favorite, with PCLOS a respectable second (just some minor differences and personal taste). Alas, I've never been able to get either MEPIS 6.5 or 7.0 to work for me (Presario 2500 laptop).
Keep up the great work!
I began messing around with Linux in 1999, and switched to using nothing but Linux in late 2001 with Mandrake 8.1. Finally I had a distribution that installed easily, provided a GUI control panel for the vast majority of administration tasks, and let me get my work done. But Mandrake 8.1 still had plenty of limitations: ugly fonts, a slow and not very stable Mozilla browser, plenty of unsupported hardware (modems, for instance), etc, etc. Still, it was good enough that I felt no need to go back to Windows 98.
Mandrake gave way to other distros over time - Slackware, Mepis, and Gentoo have all served me well over the years. But while we finally got a stable 'Web browser and some great apps, the install and configuration process never really got better. Instead, as more hardware and more options (3D effects, etc) arrived, the installation and configuration seemed to get slower and more clumsy with each passing year. More things go wrong, and it takes more time to track them down and correct them.
Fast forward seven years to 2008, and guess what? I'm still using Linux, and I'm still very frustrated at how many things fail every time I try to install Linux on a new PC. To be more precise, I can always count on manually installing Gentoo from a stage 2 tarball - only trouble is it takes me a week to get it up and running and finish compiling all the software I need. But the "easy" distros - Mepis, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon, Fedora, Suse - every single one of them is riddled with problems of the sort Briard describes. I've tried them all, many times, and I have to agree with Briard: while you can configure, tweak, and arm-wrestle most of them into submission with a weeks work, not one has provided the seamless smooth install I expected would arrive years ago.
It's a sad situation. The Linux kernel is great, the vast majority of tools (GNU and other) are excellent, we have many excellent apps (from Firefox to Scribus, from Amarok to the Gimp), but the distros are still riddled with nagging little bugs, weaknesses, flaws, and unresolved problems. I continue to use Linux, because for my purposes it is better than the alternatives by a long shot; but I have all but given up hope that there will be a bug-free and easy-to-install Linux distro any time in the next decade, if ever.
This weeks Distrowatch Weekly ( http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080519 ) says the distrowatch.com website contains five hundred and sixty six different Linux distributions in its database currently. Many are moribund, but hundreds are still active projects, frantically assembling the latest collection of software for the next release. And, at the same time, leaving unfixed the numerous bugs from the last release, and adding a few more to the new one. Many have their own hand-coded administration tools, busily re-invented over and over and over.
It is a form of collective insanity, constantly turning out new releases of hundreds of flawed and buggy distros. I cannot help but wonder what would happen if everybody in the Linux community sat back, took a deep breath, and decided instead to spend the next two years polishing the current distribution. Leave the packages alone except for security updates; just work out all the thousands of little hiccups in the installation and configuration, get together and write a common GUI control panel with a comprehensive set of tools for system administration, and polish the whole thing till it works smoothly and without obvious bugs.
Well, the linux distros and their creators will never do this. So wouldn't it be nice if the alpha Linux programmers took a leaf from the FreeBSD project, and decided that the Linux kernel was not the only thing that mattered, after all? FreeBSD releases their each new version as a complete suite of software that has been tested and put together, not just a new kernel thrown out to the ravening masses.
Pigs will fly first, I expect. Sadly, I have given up hope that there will be a Linux distro for everyman/ everywoman any time soon. Until then, only those of us willing to spend hours and days elbows-deep into the command line, searching for solutions on the 'Web and hand-editing dozens of config files, can get to enjoy the fruits of Stallman, Linus, and the thousands of other creative and hard-working individuals who brought us all the software we have today. It's a crying shame, it really is.
-Gnobuddy
I've been using mint for a few months now and while there are a few bugs (my updater is broken on my laptop but not on my pc - perhaps because of the number of apps i installed on the laptop - mint was installed on the two machines at around the same time), i did find it a lot easier to install and configure than xp. On top of the ease of installation, the install took less than 40 minutes = closer to 20 vs over an hour to install xp and then the hours it takes to disable unwanted services and install needed applications. Synaptic has pretty well everything i could need. I doubt i will be going back to M$. Granted, Linux is pretty useless with most standard dialup modems; but once i got dsl, Mint just made sense. For example, my old scanner (a canon) gave me tons of problems with xp - including "the blue screen of death" even once i had found and installed the proper drivers but all i had to do was install xsane using synaptic and then plug it in - worked better than it ever did with the win programs. I didn't have any real hardware problems with Mint and the few proprietary drivers (2) i did need - eg wifi and video card- were provided and a wizard to install them popped up when i booted up for the first time.
ann
Most unix lovers I know will tell you the Ubuntu distro has always been lame. Indeed, Mint and Mepis (amongst others) are far superior. Don't be too hard on Linux if you don't like Ubuntu.
It's also unfair to compare Microsoft, whom each hardware vendor fully supports, to a Linux distro who no hardware vendor cares about. Indeed, the distro goes to the trouble to support the hardware, with very limited (if any) help from Dell, HP, and others.
Once hardware vendors fully support a distribution, you should then do your comparison. We have seen Dell sell supported PCs installed with previous versions of Unbuntu --- wait till they come out with support for the latest Ubuntu (or even better distros) before you get too huffed.
Finally, your comparison to XP will be irrelevant in a month's time --- when you will not be able to buy XP --- so your comparison should have been vs Vista. This ball-and-chain was designed for the benefit of scurrilous companies such as HP ( so that you have to buy bigger/faster hardware ) --- it is little wonder that these companies have paid little more than lip service to the Linux desktop front.
"XP irrelevent in a months time" - I hardly think so.
Just because "official" support ends soon means that ALL USERS will uninstall and stop using XP??? Yeah, right!
XP will be "relevent" for the next 10 years - just as some are still using Windows 98.
I've even heard rumours that XP is SO popular that extended support was seriously looked at - another 5 years added to it's life.
Yeah, XP is irrelevent...fool
Come July, if you want to buy a new PC the mainstream choice for OS will be Vista, Mac, or Linux.
See? No XP, peanut brain.
it's not just hw vendors who don't offer support. I was told by my isp that i would not receive any support (even if it is the fault of the network or THEIR modem) unless i am using an M$ or mac OS. They refuse to support linux:S - luckily i had an old pc lying around - i put xp on it and then unplugged it and set it aside just in case i need support.
Seems like the worst case scenario where a "critic" gets the complete wrong hardware to test/install with.
There seems to be a bit of the seven blind and elephant theme going on as well imho.
Does anyone consider Windows has a pristine history? Besides all those blue screens that users had to live
with for YEARS, in recently times the launch date for Vista longhorn was delayed a couple years due to Microsoft
having to fixup XP and come out with service pack 2. And personally, learning Vista was more of a learning curve
than ubuntu.
Given the long term, linux has come a far, far distance and simply won't go away now or in the foreseeable future.
The critical combination of original linux with GNU licensing, which was not a planned thing; it just happened, has
spawned a wave of software development of a large magnitude. Consider the totality of drivers developed for linux
which is meeting the thousands of various hardware components available today including current video, infrared,
wireless, printers etc. This massive foundation of software parts that goes into the various linux distros seems to
barely get a glance.
I've worked with computers for 20 years and friends always ask me for help with one thing or another with their
Windows PC's. They aren't having an easy time of it as is put forward in these posts assessing linux vs _______ .
Once linux is setup, and people will ask for help from someone they know to set it up just like they ask for help
when Windows goes ary, it (linux) runs alot smoother and problem free longer than a Windows box.
One other thing for ubuntu - it is Active directory enabled now. When company owners find this out, along with the
idea that they don't need to replace all their workstation hardware it'll be a fair number of windows pcs getting
formatted and reinstalled with ubuntu hardy.
If you just can't get any appreciation for linux at all try this fact - at least 1/2 of the server nodes that physically make
up the planet's internet are linux boxes.
Perspective, but as my opinion of course.
Briard,
I can only assume that the level of criticism you heap on Ubuntu is a response to the zealotry of the Ubuntites, which approaches that of Macheads for Apple. I came to Ubuntu (Dapper Drake) a few years ago, drawn by the promise of an easy to install and use linux desktop. I found then what you describe in your review of Hardy: codecs, widgets, fonts, and helper apps that were not installed by default, and numerous config files that needed hand editing. All very annoying, but I learned alot about linux along the way. The last straw, I guess, was when I learned that in order to upgrade to Feisty Fawn, I was first required to upgrade to Edgy Eft, which I had passed on. Fortunately, PClinuxOS2007 was just being released and I made the switch, and everything just worked, right out of the box. I was then, and still am, very impressed with this OS for its ease of use. Any linux OS, especially one hoping to draw converts from the other side, should make ease of use a top priority. Of course, one must be willing to learn a little about linux. If not, stick with Windows. And if you really want to dumb down, get a Mac.
Bill
I can only speak with FULL praise for both "Gutsy" and the new " Hardy Heron".
Some months ago I experimented with the CD version of " Gutsy", and was very impressed by the Speed, Software, lack off Virus rubbish etc.
I then decided to install a dual boot - I also have Vista Ultimate. This was set to automatic, and all went with no problems at all. When I boot up my computer by default installs "Ubuntu" in 4 secs, unless I especially request that it boots to Vista. The whole procedure is very simple, and in my opinion " Ubuntu" is light years ahead of Windows. I keep Vista installed and use it very occasionaly to open some programmes that come over in emails, using Power point, Excell and some Word variances. At the moment I find that even using "Wine" the interpretation is not perfect.
If of course you want "Bells" and" Whistles" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! to acompany your programmes then you need the memory consuming and wasting Windows - with very pricey software !!!.
Mike B - Portugal
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