Linux a familiar structure:

debtboy · 13. Dec 2009, 05:10 AM

I am just as comfortable on a Linux/Unix system as I am on a Windows system,
well that's not entirely true...
I more comfortable on a Linux system than a Windows System
(that goes for servers as well as desktops).

The reason is very simple... I know where it is and I know how it works.

Linux has a Filesystem Heirarchy Standard that it follows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesys...archy_Standard

So when you become familiar with the directory structure,
you know where files go, or should go based on what it is/does.
On Linux, everything is a file including your CD-ROM, etc... Don't believe me, go look down in /dev/

It might take about 10 minutes (or less) to get used to the structure because,
it makes sense. Take a look at the permissions (use ls -l) and they will also make sense.
Best of all this structure almost never changes.

By learning this structure, you won't have to remember so many commands,
just where to find them or even better, you might be able to answer many questions
by looking in /proc or /etc or another directory.

What servers/services were started on boot?
Where are my personal files?
Where is the samba configuration file?
Where is my password file?
How much memory do I have?
How large is my hard drive?
How much space do I have left?
What version kernel am I running?

Obviously, these can be answered on the command line, but every one of them
could be answered by looking at/in files and the best part is you already
know where these files should be.

It doesn't matter if it's Linux, BSD, HP-UX, Solaris, AIX, etc...
it's all basically the same, the structure may have slight differences but
hardly noticeable and they all work the same way.

Take 10 minutes and get familiar with the Linux directory structure and permissions,
once it makes sense to you, you'll wonder why other systems are so haphazard (sp?),
uncontrolled and ever changing.
When your struggling to find things on a new version of a poorly controlled,
ever changing system you had memorized, rest assured that you can come back to Linux,
where everything is in it's proper place and works the same as it always has.

13. Dec 2009, 10:48 AM

I have worked extensively with PC workstation and server file systems, Dec VAX, IBM MVS, ICL VME and various flavours of *nix. *nix is the worst file system I've ever worked with on two fronts. The users find it difficult to understand, despite efforts made by the IT Department, secondly security is a joke. I can allow access to me, a group I belong to, and/or the rest of the world. Now that sucks, big time.

Bring it back when it has a serious file system model...

Rik

debtboy · 13. Dec 2009, 03:05 PM

Hi Rik,
Thanks for the reply... sort of

(Ha! Ha! Ha!)

As for users not understanding, this is a mystery to me, the structure makes sense and security is applied across the entire system uniformly so if they understand saving and running files in their own (home) directory, they should understand the entire filesystem.

ICL VME now openVME has a very interesting security model I'm not familiar with and worth looking into, but the VAX and VMS are not all that different from *nix
Linux & *nix: owner, group, world | read, write, execute
VAX & VMS: system, owner, group, world | read, write, execute, delete

What these mainframe systems seem to be lacking and correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will

), is a fixed directory structure other than overall defined access areas and maybe that's due to only running a single or a few applications (typically a large database w/ interface and report jobs) or multiple databases and maybe email.

Many of these mainframe systems have been replaced with enterprise servers and thick clients, but interestingly enough we might be heading back to thin clients.

lonny · 13. Dec 2009, 05:21 PM

You are talking to the wrong people here. Just because you cook at Waffle House, you really are not a Chef. Or a guru of all things GNU/Linux. Who is your audience?

Do you really think they care one iota about file systems? I Doubt it.

Most of them just want Facebook, Youtube, and where their download went. Play a DVD, listen to some tunes, or get that picture in an email to their computer.

For a discussion on file systems go on IRC to channels #debian,suse,redhat, or for even more pain go to #slackware, here on this site you are a psuedo-guru, get off the porch and run with the big boys.

Rik is correct.

This site is to help new users not the forum to explain the inner working of file systems. They don't care.

debtboy · 13. Dec 2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonny

You are talking to the wrong people here. Just because you cook at Waffle House, you really are not a Chef. Or a guru of all things GNU/Linux. Who is your audience?

Do you really think they care one iota about file systems? I Doubt it.

Most of them just want Facebook, Youtube, and where their download went. Play a DVD, listen to some tunes, or get that picture in an email to their computer.

For a discussion on file systems go on IRC to channels #debian,suse,redhat, or for even more pain go to #slackware, here on this site you are a psuedo-guru, get off the porch and run with the big boys.

Rik is correct.

This site is to help new users not the forum to explain the inner working of file systems. They don't care.

Hi Lonny,
I think you are doing the members here a disservice by profiling them as casual users who don't care about filesystems. This may or may not be true, but I believe forums draw all kinds of users and sharing information is what I do, as opposed to withholding info based on a perceived "target audience".

As for the "Waffle House cook", "pseudo-guru" and "get off the porch and run with the big boys" comments, they are off topic and out of character.

If you want to know about me, I am a LUG member and do frequent IRC/Freenode and If I have Linux information, I share it as any good linux user should, even if I'm attacked for doing so. It's my opinion that this post will help a linux user sometime down the road if it hasn't already.

I haven't been away from this forum long, but I have mellowed out a lot.

wdhpr · 13. Dec 2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Thumbs down Who Cares
You are talking to the wrong people here. Just because you cook at Waffle House, you really are not a Chef. Or a guru of all things GNU/Linux. Who is your audience?

Do you really think they care one iota about file systems? I Doubt it.

Most of them just want Facebook, Youtube, and where their download went. Play a DVD, listen to some tunes, or get that picture in an email to their computer.

For a discussion on file systems go on IRC to channels #debian,suse,redhat, or for even more pain go to #slackware, here on this site you are a psuedo-guru, get off the porch and run with the big boys.

Rik is correct.

This site is to help new users not the forum to explain the inner working of file systems. They don't care.

Not so fast sparky

This site has a wide range of viewers with a wide range of expierance.
Allot of people have made the leap to Linux due to the help and encouragement from expieranced memders in this forum. I for one don't have the pateince to download a 5 meg pdf and read the whole thing from beginning to end. I use material like that as a refrence. However being able to ask questions about Linux and recieve answers at this forum has been pivotal for me to grasp the basics of Linux. To be fair there are also other great Linux forums to be found on the net.

So it is inacurate to paint all viewers with the same brush.

I can also say debtboy has done a great job on this forum by sharing his Linux know-how

Cheers
Wdhpr

bk_7312 · 14. Dec 2009, 04:49 AM

Yeah... what wdhpr said.

I know that most users just want do tasks related to multimedia but there is also a number of users who actually wants to learn how things works.

Putting that aside, for those who don't understand the Linux filesystem, take a look at GoboLinux.

Quote:

GoboLinux is a modular Linux distribution: it organizes the programs in your system in a new, logical way. Instead of having parts of a program thrown at /usr/bin, other parts at /etc and yet more parts thrown at /usr/share/something/or/another, each program gets its own directory tree, keeping them all neatly separated and allowing you to see everything that's installed in the system and which files belong to which programs in a simple and obvious way.

See here: http://www.gobolinux.org/?page=at_a_glance

debtboy · 14. Dec 2009, 06:06 PM

GoboLinux looks very interesting,
there is probably no better example which demonstrates
the power of the link ln or symbolic link ln -s

13. Dec 2009, 05:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
debtboy Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: ~/ Posts: 127	Linux a familiar structure: I am just as comfortable on a Linux/Unix system as I am on a Windows system, well that's not entirely true... I more comfortable on a Linux system than a Windows System (that goes for servers as well as desktops). The reason is very simple... I know where it is and I know how it works. Linux has a Filesystem Heirarchy Standard that it follows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesys...archy_Standard So when you become familiar with the directory structure, you know where files go, or should go based on what it is/does. On Linux, everything is a file including your CD-ROM, etc... Don't believe me, go look down in /dev/ It might take about 10 minutes (or less) to get used to the structure because, it makes sense. Take a look at the permissions (use ls -l) and they will also make sense. Best of all this structure almost never changes. By learning this structure, you won't have to remember so many commands, just where to find them or even better, you might be able to answer many questions by looking in /proc or /etc or another directory. What servers/services were started on boot? Where are my personal files? Where is the samba configuration file? Where is my password file? How much memory do I have? How large is my hard drive? How much space do I have left? What version kernel am I running? Obviously, these can be answered on the command line, but every one of them could be answered by looking at/in files and the best part is you already know where these files should be. It doesn't matter if it's Linux, BSD, HP-UX, Solaris, AIX, etc... it's all basically the same, the structure may have slight differences but hardly noticeable and they all work the same way. Take 10 minutes and get familiar with the Linux directory structure and permissions, once it makes sense to you, you'll wonder why other systems are so haphazard (sp?), uncontrolled and ever changing. When your struggling to find things on a new version of a poorly controlled, ever changing system you had memorized, rest assured that you can come back to Linux, where everything is in it's proper place and works the same as it always has. __________________ [I][B]Linux, the choice of a GNU generation[/B][/I] Last edited by debtboy; 13. Dec 2009 at 05:28 AM.

13. Dec 2009, 10:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
rikmayell Guest Posts: n/a	Unix File System Sucks I have worked extensively with PC workstation and server file systems, Dec VAX, IBM MVS, ICL VME and various flavours of nix. nix is the worst file system I've ever worked with on two fronts. The users find it difficult to understand, despite efforts made by the IT Department, secondly security is a joke. I can allow access to me, a group I belong to, and/or the rest of the world. Now that sucks, big time. Bring it back when it has a serious file system model... Rik

13. Dec 2009, 03:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
debtboy Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: ~/ Posts: 127	Hi Rik, Thanks for the reply... sort of (Ha! Ha! Ha!) As for users not understanding, this is a mystery to me, the structure makes sense and security is applied across the entire system uniformly so if they understand saving and running files in their own (home) directory, they should understand the entire filesystem. ICL VME now openVME has a very interesting security model I'm not familiar with and worth looking into, but the VAX and VMS are not all that different from nix Linux & nix: owner, group, world \| read, write, execute VAX & VMS: system, owner, group, world \| read, write, execute, delete What these mainframe systems seem to be lacking and correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will ), is a fixed directory structure other than overall defined access areas and maybe that's due to only running a single or a few applications (typically a large database w/ interface and report jobs) or multiple databases and maybe email. Many of these mainframe systems have been replaced with enterprise servers and thick clients, but interestingly enough we might be heading back to thin clients. __________________ [I][B]Linux, the choice of a GNU generation[/B][/I]

13. Dec 2009, 05:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
lonny Full Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 73	Who Cares You are talking to the wrong people here. Just because you cook at Waffle House, you really are not a Chef. Or a guru of all things GNU/Linux. Who is your audience? Do you really think they care one iota about file systems? I Doubt it. Most of them just want Facebook, Youtube, and where their download went. Play a DVD, listen to some tunes, or get that picture in an email to their computer. For a discussion on file systems go on IRC to channels #debian,suse,redhat, or for even more pain go to #slackware, here on this site you are a psuedo-guru, get off the porch and run with the big boys. Rik is correct. This site is to help new users not the forum to explain the inner working of file systems. They don't care.

14. Dec 2009, 06:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
debtboy Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: ~/ Posts: 127	GoboLinux looks very interesting, there is probably no better example which demonstrates the power of the link ln or symbolic link ln -s __________________ [I][B]Linux, the choice of a GNU generation[/B][/I]

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