Giveaway of the Day

[wdhpr]

js960, I have not removed the link, I have merely edited it. This topic is in the ChitChat forum, and that's why the link is still here, otherwise would have been removed totally.

You will appreciate that this is a freeware forum, and so naturally the focus will highest on freewares, and negligible or nil on commercial-wares. I do not want to go into the technicalities that you wrote in your post, because I do not want to get into unnecessary, unneeded discussions, or debates.

We offer a forum and this site as a platform to discuss freewares. It is our policy, not to mention commercial wares, unless and until absolutely needed. If a freeware is not available that will do the required job, then of course commercial softwares can be mentioned, but within our policies. We are providing the platform, you will have to abide by our policies.
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Anupam

This is a worthy debate

Just from my perspective. I believe their should be some area in this forum that makes room for nonfree software. Gizmo's desert island software mentions nonfree software. Indeed some software that is paid for has no freeware counterpart that is superior. For instance Acronis true image was advertized on hot finds at a significant savings. But it was still nonfree! I for one snapped it up and that software has pulled my bacon out of the fire more than once.

This said. I am a fierce proponent of freeware. I am also a long time follower of Gizmo, long before he went to the new setup. But lets face it there are times the best product has to be paid for. That is a good thing Sometimes it is better in the long run to have a piece of quality software that is supported and has teams of technicians ensuring its the best product money can buy.

Does discussing non free software diminish the spirit of this forum? Can there be one thread dedicated to this discussion? A place where a discussion can ensue(with no active links). I for one have felt the need to find a piece of software that can't be found free.

There is also a real chance of making the waters muddy by the slightest deviation of the FREE concept. I would never want to suggest anything that would spoil an otherwise outstanding forum. Just a thought.

Cheers
Wdhpr

[MidnightCowboy]

I agree that this is a worthy debate and it's one that's been continuing on and off behind the scenes here too. The problem is that it's not just what we might want but how others might view this from outside. Once you begin referencing payware of any description then this attracts the spammers in force. They come here already of course but because of our policy, and our ability to implement it, it only presents a nuisance and doesn't make their efforts worth returning for. Once you handicap this process by making it more labour intensive to police then the possibility for a major problem increases. Some sites have been forced to close because of this.

Another issue is centred around our complete transparency regarding commercial links and affiliations - i.e. there aren't any so visitors can be confident that we're not being influenced by third parties. This makes the information here honest and believable albeit still the opinion of the editor concerned.

Another important point is that the flood gates for comparatives between the free and paid version of software would open up overnight and even with 80+ volunteer editors we simply would not be able to respond to such requests. It also wouldn't be possible to restrict this to the forum as it would inevitably spill over into the main page comments.

I should add that we already have a provision to allow the mention of payware under certain circumstances and one of these is where no better freeware alternative exists. Luckily this situation is hardly encountered because in general freeware programs are at least equal to, or in many cases better than the paid alternatives.

[wdhpr]

I should add that we already have a provision to allow the mention of payware under certain circumstances and one of these is where no better freeware alternative exists. Luckily this situation is hardly encountered because in general freeware programs are at least equal to, or in many cases better than the paid alternatives.

MC

I agree. You open a crack and it will eventually bring down the dam and muddy the waters. (reasonable metaphor)

However I still believe that in some instances, support and continual refining of a product also has a value.

Enough said. MC paints a clear picture

Cheers
Wdhpr

[js960]

Oh I dont have a problems with rules Anapum. But if yours are so delicate Giveaway is approved and Bitsdujour not I would say they are not understandable by humanity. Content, intend, ideas behind those 2 sites are identical. It is your interpretation of them that counts so not a problem for you since you will just edit away - and of course emphasize rules are to be followed and Im free to leave. Thank you. Does not make them any more understandable though. The only clear distinction I can somewhat understand you react to is a monetary one - and in this context it hardly make any sense. Are we on a level where $$$ means crap and you moderate accordingly? I bow to that if you are a hard core Linux user, if not you are kidding your self. Anyway, and why I posted in the first place, I would argue the opposite. Im not sure Giveaway is a place to dive into, not that Cowboy recommended them highly but name was mentioned... If concerned on behalf of the well beings of "users" computers I would definitely suggest my link instead. People tend to think twice before paying up, like in really thinking! Giveaway is just click, click. Dont whitewash everything "free". You want link to free screensaver, icons or what?

Btw, I would suggest you simply remove links, or even entire post, all together not just remove "clickability". That seems silly, like there are doubts and I somehow dont think that is the case.

We can go through many many post looking for "commercial" links if you like. I have trouble finding much non-commercial content these days, I guess I must be blind. How to monetize is a bit more complicated and advanced than just putting a price tag on, again check out Giveaway site. In fact that one is like the opposite of what Gizmo is about. Trying to make payware into freeware when it clearly is not.

I did not link to a program already covered by freeware btw. That would be embarrassing to me, I doubt there are software in any Gizmo articles I dont already know. I linked to a site/service identical to Giveaway, a "better" alternative. On a good day some $$$ to be saved for a very good program with absolutely no freeware alternative. What is the problem? If payware is an enemy of yours that is 1. Silly and 2. Dont fight it by removing links, suggestions, tips - try come up with alternatives, spread information, debate - which I thought this forum was about. Censorship is never pleasant to witness. Not understandable censorship making a big deal out of not bothering to relate very annoying. You dont edit posts without very good reason. That is what moderators are supposed to do! But you know what you are doing since saying my link would have been removed "totally" if not in this forum. Comforting and you still dont have to explain why. We are down to torrent links and spam then.

Besides strange forum control dont praise freeware as an item since freeware is many things. Bait, waiting to be sold off, free beta-testing until... etc. This cant be news unless entirely focused on $$$ and then I understand no logic/insight is present. There are freeware you should not recommend for sure. Which means we are back to my suggestion of going through all posts on this forum. Prepare to get busy unless you believe there are true giveaway companies Let us investigate? You can strike down on individual posts and feel happy - or get a more realistic approach to how internet/software world works.

If a spammer, may be a really good one you were never sure about, happens to put in links to payware that should be picked up of course. I dont see this thread even remotely connected to that or other "plugs" going against the freeware spirit. Only reason I mentioned Bitsdujour, I said that before moderation, is full/genuine/valid license, not "faked" like the Gizmo approved Giveaway ones. I also said much the same crap as Cowboy sees on Giveaway are on their site as well. Most of the times there is a good "reason" why something is cheap - can be lucky and get a good valid deal though.

[kendall]

I certainly don't want to insert myself into this discussion. However, I do think that there is a large difference between a site like GATD and Bitsdujour. Bitsujour is clearly not freeware. At the top of their homepage, they state "24 hour discount deals on fantastic software applications". They are a discount site, not a freeware site. I am not debating whether it is a good site or not or even whether they offer good deals or not. The point is that they do not promote freeware.

Can people find good deals there? Possibly and probably. But, this site is dedicated primarily to freeware. We do mention, at times, commercial software. But, that is not our focus.

[MidnightCowboy]

I agree here with Kendall and as I've said before it's not necessarily a question of what we might want to see or allow here, it's what's practical for the environment in which we operate. Once commercial type links start appearing here they are picked up by the search engines and TSA becomes a magnet for spammers. I freely admit that in implementing this policy we might not get it 100% right all the time, but we do try and I have never seen a better site than TSA for quality of administration.

We welcome everyone's contribution whether it be one post or 100's but long after the dust has settled and many members have faded away we are still here working. It's impossible to cater for every wish or foresee every possible problem issue but in trying to provide a balanced service we would hope that our efforts are appreciated.

[js960]

You seem to miss the point that Giveaway is also not about freeware, only payware. Where is the large difference kendall? You have managed to insert yourself just enough to confirm moderator in that difference, so explain. You will find many instances of the very same programs even. You can exchange name and have exactly same reservations to Giveaway as you do Bitsdujour. Which means we are down to anything that is for free is also approved situation. I dont see much thought process in that - besides being a strange way of approaching this area which free products or not in most cases are tied with money, directly or indirectly. The distinction is simply not possible today - and I did not spam other posts with more or less useless hints to payware. Do not see where rules were stepped on.

Well Cowboy, fine to keep a policy of praising rules and judgment, an another rule in itself! Why?, well because we are doing it, which is basically what you are saying... Thought of misjudgement or reevaluation is not an option since not possible and more importantly you have no reason to complain. Moderator likes payware when it is delivered through Giveaway - which means terms are also approved of. Shall we talk about quality or not? Ever thought Giveaway is a scheme to make money?, like hmm any other site with that setup? From a cheap, always keep money in pocket point of view it will do, but if you think quality, knowledge of terms like in no updates, then only a perhaps yes on a good day. Anyway, at least make actions clear to those who post. That is to be expected of good administration, as a minimum. How to explain that administration is another discipline. This is so paperthin and will take down tons of post on this forum if there is any real reasoning behind it. Linking to ad- and affiliate-ridden sites is ok and then Im supposed to figure out Bitsdujour, which has no direct content at all is a no no? Truth is you cant talk about much without getting in problems - but then good rules in a invisible way are flexible and has much randomness to them.

[wdhpr]

hello js960

I have had to give this subject considerable thought. I like you briefly thought there could be a way to add a thread to the discussion of commercial software. At first glance I thought it to be a no brainer. however after peeling a few layers off this onion and reading MC's previous post I see the potential for disaster. It starts with a few linked bad sites which in turn effects this sites wot rating, The spam magnet this site would become and so on and so forth. For what? A discussion on commercial software that can be discussed on a million other sites. This will diminish the novel status of this site. I enjoy the people who come and visit this site and those that lend much of their time to support this site and offer honest and well intended advice. This is the essence that the people here want to preserve. For what ever benefits the discussion of commercial software would bring, its just not worth the risk
My 2 cents

Cheers
Wdhpr

[js960]

That is not what is being discussed wdhpr, not at all. Again, I did not insert commercial link into a thread about freeware. If anything I inserted commercial link into a thread about commercial software! Which is my whole point. And I will most definitely claim that if you are so concerned about what users decide or get suggested here, think of how you can approve of Giveaway with their terms, and not the other one. Does not make sense what so ever so wiggle, wiggle. There is one distinction and that is $$$ and that does not even hold water if you ask me. Extended trial at best, much go against Giveaway.

I am aware of it goes when moderator needs help, user with 7 posts. People step up..

[MidnightCowboy]

Originally Posted by wdhpr

hello js960

This will diminish the novel status of this site.
Wdhpr

I guess this sums it up quite nicely because TSA is different and we don't want to be like anywhere else. How they might manage their site or approve their posts is up to them but here we do it our way until falling numbers suggest a policy review is required. Ultimately, although we are about freeware we're just as customer driven as any other site and our visitor numbers continue to rise month on month at a time when others have been declining.

TSA now enjoys an Alexa world ranking of 14,730 which is no mean feat considering the time online in it's current format.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/techsupportalert.com